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trumpet-matz Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 105
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: Warburton *(star) Backbore loosing centre |
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Hi Everybody,
I switched from a Bach 3c to a Warburton 4M and choosed a Warburton 7* Backbore. I really like the 4M because of its versatlity and comfort. Pretty good for allround playing. First I also liked the 7*. It is open and full sounding, but after some time I noticed, that I am gonna loose centre and core. I am now thinking about trying a Standard 7 BB. What do you think? Do you have similar experiences? Thanks for your suggestions! |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2478 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: |
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I have a 7* and a 7 right now. I usually use a 2 except on picc where I use a Bach Schmidt backbore. I was experimenting.
In my experience the * backbores always seem really diffuse after 20 mins. I compared a 2* with a 2, a 10* with a 10. What they look like to me is that the * takes the same backbore reamer and inserts it further, shortening the cylinder section of the throat. I think that's where the focus comes from. The * sound impressive and better initially but given some long term playing I experience exactly what you experience.
The standard 7 isn't my cup of tea either. Sure you could try one as it will have more focus than the * has, but maybe try a 6 or 5. The 5 was the first backbore I really liked.
Hope this helps,
Mike _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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Larry Smithee Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I constantly hear players wanting an "open" blow fell to their mouthpiece/backbores. Not me. I want some resistance to blow against. I find having a bit of resistance to be very helpful. That said, I've been using a Warburton Qm backbore for several years but will, on occasion, try a more open type backbore. My reaction to those experiments are generally the same. Nope! Resistance works better for me. |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Larry Smithee wrote: | I constantly hear players wanting an "open" blow fell to their mouthpiece/backbores. Not me. I want some resistance to blow against. I find having a bit of resistance to be very helpful. That said, I've been using a Warburton Qm backbore for several years but will, on occasion, try a more open type backbore. My reaction to those experiments are generally the same. Nope! Resistance works better for me. |
Exactly the same for me. Everybody told me that my Warburton #3 backbore is not a good match for the 3D top I play. Ok... tried a 8* and it seems exactly how the original poster said. So I figured that I need that extra resistance in the backbore. I tend to like larger cups, so maybe a #5 backbore in the future. .. _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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The * Warburton backbores I've played all feel and sound kinda lifeless. No matter how loud I play, the sound just dissipates.
Also agree with the other posters that the tighter backbores have been more successful for me. I like between 3-5ish but I've had a NY for about five years now, cut for Sleeves.
So, yeah, if you like the resistance of the 7, id try the standard backbore, but maybe experiment with some tighter options.
I've had a few backbores that were a weird fit in some horns. I got wobbles with fit on a Q on my Benge, and a weird fit on some Schilke trumpets years ago. Since my pieces are cut for sleeves all those problems disappeared.
Food for thought ... |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | I usually use a 2
Mike |
Hey Mike about 10 years ago or more when Ken started making the Q, he started making the Qm with a 27 entrance then a modified taper to a 29 backbore
I told him I liked it but wanted something tighter. The length of the 2 is long enough to modify the throat, and Ken made me a 2 with a 27 hole that tightened in throat area to a 29. I think the 2 and the 1 are the only numbered backbores long enough to make that happen.
It was a killer piece I gave to a buddy years ago and never got back, but something you might consider in your endeavors. |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:00 am Post subject: |
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The star backbores are really meant for classical playing I think, where you don't want every note to pop (you want to control and colour the attack more).
If you need more focus and 'pop' then that's what the standard series is for, so absolutely try a 7. Although, you might also want to try an ordinary #9 too. |
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hose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 1854 Location: Winter Garden, FL
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:39 am Post subject: |
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KT, aka Ken Titmus, has said if you're seeing too much of the conductor's hand, use the same backbore, but with a star. That will most likely solve the problem without changing your air/volume. _________________ Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2478 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Benge.nut wrote: | bach_again wrote: | I usually use a 2
Mike |
Hey Mike about 10 years ago or more when Ken started making the Q, he started making the Qm with a 27 entrance then a modified taper to a 29 backbore
I told him I liked it but wanted something tighter. The length of the 2 is long enough to modify the throat, and Ken made me a 2 with a 27 hole that tightened in throat area to a 29. I think the 2 and the 1 are the only numbered backbores long enough to make that happen.
It was a killer piece I gave to a buddy years ago and never got back, but something you might consider in your endeavors. |
Most interesting!! Thanks!!
I tried the J29 btw. I hated it on all the tops I have - 7EES, ES,S, SV, ESV, M, 2x 9M. Couldnt make it work for love nor money!! In the past I loved the NY and the Qm. I'll try picking them up, but right now the 2 is great. The 1 is junk on everything for me.
As a side note.. Warburton will do loads of custom stuff and are great to communicate with. And the gear is superb!
Mike _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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joe_PhD Regular Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2017 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | I have a 7* and a 7 right now. I usually use a 2 except on picc where I use a Bach Schmidt backbore. I was experimenting.
In my experience the * backbores always seem really diffuse after 20 mins. I compared a 2* with a 2, a 10* with a 10. What they look like to me is that the * takes the same backbore reamer and inserts it further, shortening the cylinder section of the throat. I think that's where the focus comes from. The * sound impressive and better initially but given some long term playing I experience exactly what you experience.
The standard 7 isn't my cup of tea either. Sure you could try one as it will have more focus than the * has, but maybe try a 6 or 5. The 5 was the first backbore I really liked.
Hope this helps,
Mike |
Let's make this more clear...
The difference between the std and the star (*) is in the taper of the backbore. In contrast to the std, the star (*) backbore has a conical taper.
This difference tends to "open" the mouthpiece - making the sound more diffused and the slots more "free."
J |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | Benge.nut wrote: | bach_again wrote: | I usually use a 2
Mike |
Hey Mike about 10 years ago or more when Ken started making the Q, he started making the Qm with a 27 entrance then a modified taper to a 29 backbore
I told him I liked it but wanted something tighter. The length of the 2 is long enough to modify the throat, and Ken made me a 2 with a 27 hole that tightened in throat area to a 29. I think the 2 and the 1 are the only numbered backbores long enough to make that happen.
It was a killer piece I gave to a buddy years ago and never got back, but something you might consider in your endeavors. |
Most interesting!! Thanks!!
I tried the J29 btw. I hated it on all the tops I have - 7EES, ES,S, SV, ESV, M, 2x 9M. Couldnt make it work for love nor money!! In the past I loved the NY and the Qm. I'll try picking them up, but right now the 2 is great. The 1 is junk on everything for me.
As a side note.. Warburton will do loads of custom stuff and are great to communicate with. And the gear is superb!
Mike |
I haven't tried the J29 or the H as of yet. I've really kinda stopped searching for now with the NY with Sleeves.
Putting the backbores down was great for me to stop constantly changing and second guessing myself. Took me a long time though |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1720 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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joe_PhD wrote: |
Let's make this more clear...
The difference between the std and the star (*) is in the taper of the backbore. In contrast to the std, the star (*) backbore has a conical taper.
This difference tends to "open" the mouthpiece - making the sound more diffused and the slots more "free."
J |
Just to be clear - what you're talking about is the taper of the throat section in the backbore part. The standards are cylindrical (as is the part of throat in the top) and the stars have a conical section at the end of the throat.
And yes, this leads to a slightly freer blowing feel, a little less focus in the tone and a little less security in the slots. |
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joe_PhD Regular Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2017 Posts: 15
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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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TKSop wrote: | joe_PhD wrote: |
Let's make this more clear...
The difference between the std and the star (*) is in the taper of the backbore. In contrast to the std, the star (*) backbore has a conical taper.
This difference tends to "open" the mouthpiece - making the sound more diffused and the slots more "free."
J |
Just to be clear - what you're talking about is the taper of the throat section in the backbore part. The standards are cylindrical (as is the part of throat in the top) and the stars have a conical section at the end of the throat.
And yes, this leads to a slightly freer blowing feel, a little less focus in the tone and a little less security in the slots. |
Of course - the taper of the throat section! |
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