Curry for Conn Victor 80A, Essential Tremor, dental work

[RGrahame]

Greetings, I just joined and have a number of serious issues I need help with.

I play in a couple of trad. jazz bands and play some other stuff. I have been playing a Conn 18 original vintage gold mouthpiece (.630 med. deep V 18 throat), however it is a cookie cutter and I don’t have very good range or endurance (actually I never really did). It is also hurting my lips (read on). I have been playing it for a year and it took a long time to get used to. I also have a Wicks 4B, however I find that I lose a couple of notes off the top and struggle with it. I also have what seems to be the original mouthpiece, but it is even deeper than the Conn 18. I have tried all my other mouthpieces and was working at getting used to my vintage Bach 10 1/2 C. These other mouthpieces are not short shanks that my older horn is built for. Every time I try other mouthpieces, I go back to the little gold Conn 18.

Recently, I have decided that a Curry mouthpiece would be a good way to go for now. There is such a great selection, however, I can’t decide exactly which model and which size.

I really like a rich, warm, dark, sweet sound, something like Bix, but who can ever really play like Bix—not me, that’s for sure. Any recommendations?

There are a couple of other issues at play here that I should mention. I have a condition called Essential Tremor, so I tend to play with extra pressure in attempting to reduce the shakiness. I’m working at this in terms of the way I play and the medication I take.

I also broke my upper front teeth when I was a kid and now have old veneers that are chipping off. Lately the inside of my lip is getting a little chewed up, thrashed and mangled from the rough surface. I also have crowded teeth on the bottom and one tooth in the middle is turned and has a point that presses into my lower lip. My dentist wants to fix the veneers and extract a tooth on the bottom so the others can move to be straighter. It’s a wonder I can even play.

Since I live in Vancouver, I visited Dr. Dave and tried his Wedge mouthpieces. He ended up recommending a Conn taper shank with a flugelhorn top. When I told him about my teeth, he told me to be careful because most dentists don’t understand what sort of tooth arrangement a trumpet player needs. So I looked around in the forums and was shocked to read stories of players who had dental work and lost an octave. One day I hope to go back with better teeth and try the Wedges again. Today I was in the music store explaining all these issues to the young fellow behind the counter who is a trumpet player. He said he has a natural high range. I am hoping that, if I can find out what could be changed when my teeth get fixed, I might improve my playing.

Help!!! I seem to be in a bit of a mess regarding my teeth and mouthpieces. I really need some solid advice and ideas. I am not young anymore and am returning to playing after a 30 year break, but I sure love playing this CV 80A and all the old tunes. I had the valves redone at Anderson’s—wow!

Sorry for the length of this. Perhaps some this should go in another post elsewhere.
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[GordonH]

I also have a Conn Victor from 1921, but mine is technically the 81A - although the high pitch slides have long since gone missing. However, mine has been used for so long with a standard taper mouthpiece it has been worn down / stretched to fit that fitting rather than the original Conn. You might want to check yours out before deciding you need that special order. The Curry VC is probably the mouthpiece you are looking for as it has the #18 throat but is a comfortable rim.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Richard III]

I'm impressed if you made the Conn 18 work. I've got two of them and they are just too small diameter for me to work with. The Curry VC does have a very soft bite. A little too soft for me but they might be what you are looking for. I also have a Curry FLM flugelhorn mouthpiece that Mark Curry adapted to a Conn cornet shank for me. Nice fluffy sound with the Conn 80A cornet. Another idea is to just go with the newer Conn mouthpieces. My Conn 4, though not as deep, does have a nice sound with all my Conn cornets.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Dale Proctor]

If you're thinking about having a Curry mouthpiece made with the old Conn cornet taper, I'd suggest one of his BBC models. That would be similar to what Dr. Dave recommended, but would be more playable and easier on the lip. I play a Curry 3BBC. on my old 80A sometimes and it has a really nice sound, even though it has a standard taper shank. You probably would like a smaller diameter cup than the 3, though.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Oncewasaplayer]

I hear two issues: 1) teeth along with extra pressure 2) mouthpiece for trad playing.

I would try to resolve the teeth veneers sooner than later. That'll create a better surface for pressure playing.

The 80A is a remarkable horn, capable a fluffy flugelicious sound or it can bark with the big dogs. Mouthpiece choice is key along with a clear sound concept for the player.

The Curry BBC and the VDC are excellent for the fluffy sound. (I never found the VDC comfortable.) That BBC will work great for community band, brass band, etc. but would be some serious work to play in a trad setting.

For trad lead playing, I needed something else--curry TC and the DC both can work. I really like using the P mouthpiece as well--good for piccolo and good for trad playing. I also like the ordinary Bach 3C cornet piece--works great. I found the Warburton with the KT backbore works great. You can dial in a suitable top with their help. You can still have a cornet sound but one that carries, projects and let's them know you're in charge. I'd probably just get the Curry TC and play it for a year while you're messing with your chops. As always, get the mouthpiece that makes your life a bit easier rather than more work.

Wishing you good things with your tremor. Trad playing is the best!
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Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet

[RGrahame]

I just measured my leadpipe and the mark on my Conn 18.
The calliper measures the end of the leadpipe at .386 in or 9.8 mm. and the mark on my gold Conn 18 gives the same measurement.

Is this correct, or has it been worn?

I suspect it is right because that mouthpiece makes notes slot really well and that is one reason I like to play it.

As for the size, I suppose I might move up in size a bit. I'm not sure what that might do and I'm not sure how much larger to go. I like the look of the VC types and would like that look with the most comfortable cup, I guess. The Conn 18 seems to be between the 8.5 and the 10.5 somewhere. Maybe I should go for something in the middle, like a 2, 3 or 5, and someday order ones from the other ends of the range. It is still quite confusing.

My instrument tech once showed me a basket of mouthpieces from one of the local pros. There must have been a hundred in there. I guess I am heading into that endless search for the perfect mouthpiece. Although, a lot of it is probably working to get used to a particular one.

As for my teeth, I have to get them fixed very soon. I'm just wondering if a slight alteration may help improve my playing. My two front teeth do stick out a bit.

I'm really not sure about extracting the crowed tooth on the bottom. That would initially leave a gap. My dentist says that the other teeth would move around to eventually fill the gap. Maybe the lower teeth don't affect playing as much as the uppers. Is there a dentist player around?
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[Richard III]

I went back and read your original post. I would not pass the Wick 4B if it works in most ways for you. I'm currently playing a Wick 4 no letter with my 80A (the one with the copper bell). Before everyone jumps on, I should say that when I was playing it before with my York Eminence, I worked up to being to play complete works without tiring and my range was higher on that mouthpiece than others. It's just a question of conditioning. Think of it as a type of MF Protocol training as it really makes you play with proper technique.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Andy Cooper]

1. First find a modern mouthpiece that comes close to your Conn. The above posters suggest the Curry Vintage - probably the 8.5 or 10.5. The Vintage mouthpieces have a "sweet" cornet sound - not a Brass Band sound. I think Mark told me once that it was based on an old Clark model.

2. Check the gap, if any, with all of your mouthpieces. I've found a lot of variation with the older Denis Wick mouthpieces - I'm sure their newer ones have resolved the problem. This will give you an idea as to whether you need a "Conn shank" on the mouthpiece.

I admire your ability to use a #18 throat with the 80A - it probably has a .485 bore if it is like my '21. I had little luck with Wick mouthpiece on it but found that Bach flugelhorn mouthpieces with the shank turned down to fit cornet, and the backbore enlarged somewhat, worked well.

While my smile does not scare small children, my upper and lower teeth are an assortment of opposing angles. The only rim I can tolerate, is the Neill Sanders with the high point towards the outside of the rim. Should you be able to find an old Sanders cornet mouthpiece - the 16 model would be the closest to what you want. Any mouthpiece maker could put a Sanders rim on a mouthpiece for you once you find a stock mouthpiece that works.

3. If you play 1/3 - one third top lip, two thirds bottom lip - you might be able to use the Asymmetric mouthpiece. The lower portion of the rim is very wide and comfortable. John Lynch has a new model for cornet - the Virtuoso. I've tried the Asymmetric mouthpieces but since I play 2/3 like a french horn player - they don't work for me. Well - I could play them - upside down...

http://www.asymmetric-mouthpiece.com/models.htm

4. Then again, you might get lucky. Try the Yamaha 7D4d and the 9E short shank mouthpieces. I know the 9E is more comfortable and less work than the Wick 4B. Oh - if you really want to use a Wick, try the 5B - the ID would be closer to your .630.

[RGrahame]

Wow, a lot of mouthpiece recommendations. I find it so difficult to try different mouthpieces because I only have two with a true Conn shank. The shank seems to make a difference, even though there doesn't seem to be much of a ridge in the leadpipe that would form a gap. Also, when I try others they are so much different to the Conn 18 I am used to that is is difficult to know what is actually going to work. Maybe I should try the long shanks on my Getzen Eterna. I used to play a Shilke 11 on it. When I do try various mouthpieces, the one that I find best after the Conn is my vintage Bach 10 1/2 C. Maybe because it is closer to the Conn. I'll give the Wicks another crack.

All this seems moot though until I get my teeth done. There have not been many comments on my teeth issues, so maybe I should hold-off on the lower extraction. Is there a better place here to post about teeth and dental work?

I did find a rather humorous thread about filing teeth down http://maynardfergusonboard.yuku.com/topic/373#.WN4AWRgXlE4. I don't know if it is to be believed. I don't need to be filing my teeth since they need to be fixed anyway. I guess I could ask if the veneers could be a tad shorter and maybe not as fat. I often feel like I have beaver teeth, or as one poster put it in that thread, Bugs Bunny teeth.

Can anyone tell me how much the lower teeth affect playing compared to the uppers? That might help me decide what to do about my crowed lowers.

I used to have plenty of bad habits. My embouchure was off centre a bit, I was taught the smile method for upper notes and I even moved the mouthpiece for higher notes. I have spent months sorting all this out on my return to playing. I do find my fingers and my tongue are slow.

Is there a secret to getting Mark Curry to answer E-mails. I have been waiting for nearly three weeks now.

Another thing Dr. Dave mentioned when I tried his Wedges is that, if it doesn't seem right immediately then I is probably not the mouthpiece for you. I have always thought that one needs to work at getting used to a mouthpiece.

I like that word—"flugelicious" Is there a "corneticous" sound?
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[etc-etc]

You could try lip protector for both upper and lower teeth:

[Dale Proctor]

For what it's worth, I'll throw this into the teeth discussion. Probably 30 or more years ago, I had my lower front teeth smoothed a bit, but it was more of an abrasive polishing than filing. I had very sharp lower teeth in front, and they kept the inside of my lower lip chewed up from playing. My dentist at the time was a trombone player, and understood what I was asking for when I approached him about smoothing the tips of those teeth. No, I didn't use a file in front of the bathroom mirror, and it was done successfully with no ill effects all these years later. No extra range, either...ha ha
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[cheiden]

[Richard III]

Email Mark Curry with what you want exactly in the subject line. Last time I had the custom mouthpiece in five days. I paid him promptly with PayPal as soon as he said he would make the piece. It was a Curry 8.5 FLM flugel mouthpiece with a pre 1958 Conn cornet shank.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[RGrahame]

I just put Conn Victor Shank in the subject line. Perhaps I should try again.[/img]
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[RGrahame]

[RGrahame]

I’m just in the process of working out with Mark Curry exactly which mouthpiece to order. He is recommending his DC rather than the vintage looking VC. I prefer the look of the VC. The biggest question is just what size to get. My Conns are small and I think my Wicks 4B is pretty large, so I’m thinking of something between a Curry 3 and 8.5, maybe a 5 or 7. I’m still not sure. Any Ideas?
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[cheiden]

[tom turner]

RGrahame,

Here's a very neat article about the various Conn mouthpieces during the years, and I'll think you like it. The site is call the Conn Loyalist, and even mentions the different Conn taper (vs. the Morse) which might help Mark craft the right fit for the shank, if this is an issue.

Mark does GREAT work. Ask him first, but he might be about to measure your mouthpieces inner and outer diameter for the rim, and its shape so he could recommend a very comfortable modern rim that would play like your vintage #18. I'll bet he could tell you really fast and that you would like it a LOT. He probably already makes that size!

All the best
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

[RGrahame]

You folks have been very helpful, so I thought I would just provide a quick update.

My lip was getting chewed up from the chipping veneers on my front teeth. I had a bump yesterday that seemed to get pointed like a pimple today, so I've laid off practice a few days again this week. Yesterday I went to discuss the dental work with my dentist. he filed and smoothed the sharp edge. He is suggesting crowns instead of veneers this time.

I have had some continuing correspondence with Mark and got down to the question of size. I had callipered my mouthpieces and then suddenly realized that for size, I had better be in the ballpark of some of my other mouthpieces, in case I have to play my Getzen Eterna cornet, or my Yamaha trumpet. So I sent him all the sizes and said figure out a match. Today I ordered an 8.5 DC on a vintage blank to look nice on my Conn Victor and it will be on the special Conn short shank he makes. All that for $86 including shipping to Canada. Wow! I feel quite confident that this is going to be a great mouthpiece and will change my playing.

I'll let you all know how it goes when I get it.
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1921 Conn Victor 80A, Conn 18 vintage mouthpiece, original mouthpiece, Wicks 4B (all short shank)
Getzen Eterna, Variety of mouthpieces
Yamaha Trumpet, Variety of mouthpieces

[Dale Proctor]

Wow! That's a great price for a custom mouthpiece. Mark is very good when it comes to mouthpiece recommendations, so hopefully your new one will work out well for you. Good luck on the teeth repairs, too.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham