the PETE device one week in

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: the PETE device one week in

i have of course been aware of the PETE for a long time, and if anything ever screamed gimmick, this is it. it has been 'no sale' for years. this is especially so as my teacher is a pencil exercise guy, and i already own a pencil.
things changed when tim wendt responded to a thread on the pencil and suggested the PETE instead. why listen when it is easy enough to blow it off. the answer is a study in following one's luck. tim had already been my benefactor with lead pipe swabs which worked out well. reeves had already been my benefactor with their sleeves. i was already half way in bed with the thing and it was worthwhile to take the plunge.
the truth is that i have only a dim notion of the embouchure muscles and this explains why ken titmus at reeves is schooling me with the PETE exercise, the pulling away from the lips with the disc in front of the teeth, rather than me teaching ken anything. who would have thought of this. then the other exercise is interesting, the narrow end in the mouth and squeeze. with a pencil you allow the muscles to slowly fatigue. with the reeves device you give it a firm isometric squeeze, repeated a few times.
range in this short time has not changed much, stayed the same, although with firmer control and stronger sound. endurance has gotten markedly better. it is enough in this short time to encourage continued PETE use in a moderate and reasonable way. everything with trumpet is progress over long periods of time anyway.

comebackcornet · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 55

I'd be interested to know how you have been using it (how much, often, etc.)

TrumpetMD · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the update, Chuck. I hope you keep us posted.

Like a new mouthpiece, I think there can be a honeymoon with any new device or new exercise. So it would interesting to see what you think about it over the long term.

Mike
_________________
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chuck in ny · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:20 am Post subject:

comebackcornet · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 55

chuck in ny · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject:

comeback

this is a good story and worth the minute nitpick.
okay you have obviously overdone things as evinced by biofeedback. you are not the first nor the last and it's forgivable.
when i do number 1, it certainly is not for 30 seconds. that is a ton of time. i could see how you would come up with that in a normal 'going to do exercise' frame of mind. however, a few seconds of pulling against the lips, and here's the kicker, be your own doctor, modulate the effort to a very moderate level. so you have those few fairly mild seconds, times a few, maybe 4, reps, and you can see it would be about 15 seconds grand total. then the other end, the embouchure squeeze, 3 good ones, good enough anyway but don't make a particular point of being a hero.
the idea is to stay within yourself. when i get to tim's level of 3 years in maybe this would change and exercise 1 would get a harder pull or whatever but i will find this out in slow measure over all that time.
rest up and you will be good to go. the very small bit i have done so far suggests that a fairly flabby effort and giving the muscles just a little bit of work will yield heartening results in endurance. i do not believe you can go wrong with this device within the normal framework that it will work for a certain percentage of players and not be productive for others.

brassmusician · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273

comebackcornet - wow! reading your routine with the PETE I wasn't suprised at the results. I suggest sticking with each "day" of your plan for a week at least, even two if you want to play it safe, before proceeding to the next increment. The lip muscles simply don't build strength as fast as you were hoping. Don't worry, I found this out the hard way too!

comebackcornet · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 55

chuck in ny · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject:

with enough rest to repair the muscle strain you should be able to handle every day exercise, or at least 6 days per week. we manage to play on a more aggressive timeline than say weight training where you can have 3 or 4 good days in the gym with plenty of rest days. if you can play every day you can handle the PETE every day if you stay well within yourself. where my muscles are right now it calls for an extremely mild routine with the disc end, and things will stay that way until some muscular development occurs, and then a slightly harder pull, or an extra repetition. this is a marathon and not a sprint. take it extremely easy with the effort and allow yourself to slowly develop.

chuck in ny · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:36 pm Post subject:

continuing with fair success in using the PETE device. i am doing very moderate exercise with it, no more than 30 or 40 seconds of actual effort. the sense i get is that the disc end will give the player endurance. i can't get a firm fix on the benefit of the narrow end.
i have been coming off a year plus layoff and my routine is 100% focused on endurance with long material, repetitive material, and things like irons. i have been able to add a small amount of extra material since using the PETE, and am leaving things at that for about a month, along with not intensifying the pull on the PETE. it's really easy to turn something good into a nightmare and i won't allow more than small but heartening additions to the work load.
what has noticeably changed is the embouchure staying supple until the end of playing. i have heard the fanciful advice that you should be fresh at the end of the session. sure. being functional suffices for me.
i had previously stopped high register work as it was possible to do either irons or high register arpeggios but not both. i am doing both now. the 4 note scale arpeggios, ascending by a half step with each series, are done toward the end of practice. they feel extremely good both in clarity and volume, with no actual half step increase at the top. things might be good for an extra half step if they were done 15 minutes earlier. it's a difficult thing to evaluate without having a lot of time in. they feel so good i expect to get a half step here and there when i don't expect it. it is also possible that the squeeze the narrow PETE end is not productive and that pencil practice will have to be done. there are no worries with this as endurance has been my primary focus and that part is coming together.
i do not get a biofeedback feeling on the embouchure muscles becoming firmer, at times it seems they are just a bit and other times they feel the same. it doesn't matter. my approach is to just give the tweak a tad of effort, and be slightly better for it. this routine needs to be done with a measure of spiritual faith, a positive attitude, and a lick of common sense.

furcifer · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:48 am Post subject:

See if this helps with the narrow end (for the longest time, I also only used the disc end):

Place the narrow end against the teeth, perpendicular or slightly above. Use enough of a pucker to squeeze down the playing surfaces of your aperture on the middle of the concave area. Pay particular attention to getting the bottom lip out there. (In particular, don't roll in just to get a harder clamp on the PETE. Clamping the PETE isn't the goal, eventually forming the correct aperture with ample strength is.)

The idea I like to go for is letting the PETE hold the aperture open as I firmly support the embouchure around it. This helps me approximate the feel that MF often talked about: A full buzz with a rounder aperture feel (as opposed to flattening it out), and the lower lip out, unfurled so that the buzzing surface is near the inside edge of the lips (instead of near the outside edge from "rolling in" too much). For me, this results in a fatter resonant sound, easier range with less tension, more endurance and with more airflow.
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chuck in ny · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject:

1jazzyalex · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject:

Overdoing with unfamiliar muscles = bad.

I think if I get a PETE and I may, I'll pick a YouTube video that's a few minutes lone and only use it for the length of that video. Ration myself.

I know if you're taking up jogging, it's really easy to overdo it when just starting out. Basic Training in the 1980s US Army was pretty good in this respect - they wanted to train us up, but push too hard and they'd get people not making it due to stress fractures. So we'd do this slow-ass shuffling/jogging thing we glorified by calling it the Airborne Shuffle and ... it works. You start out put-putting along but it's OK, it's the Airborne Shuffle. And you gradually build up.
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furcifer · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:41 pm Post subject:

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject:

keeping this thread active. i am continuing with the PETE device, and following furcifer's instructions on lip roll out when working with the narrow end. daily use is in the morning with play time usually in the evenings. i am doing a slightly greater amount of exercise as time goes on. generally it's about one minute on the disc end and a minute on the narrow end. it's important not to overtax the muscles.
the chief benefit from the beginning has been endurance and this has continued with practice sessions getting very slowly extended. now that i understand how to do the narrow end squeeze i am getting more range as well. about half the range increase is due to astute, prudent, and dedicated practice, and half is due to a stronger embouchure from the PETE, as nearly as you can figure such things.
is the PETE great, i would have to say not, you are still in the slow and laborious mode and the exercise will not fix that. is the PETE very solidly good, i would have to say yes. there is an initial 'training effect' bump in the beginning as there is with a beginning weightlifter making easy early progress. after the initial progress you should have a mildly enhanced embouchure that will continue to strengthen. it's the same grind it always is, a bit better than it was. this is the way trumpet practice is and i accept and embrace the way of life. the important thing is not to allow your inner samurai to take over, and keep practice and use of the device to well within your physical capabilities.

gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

To be honest, I have not read all the posts on this thread. So I apologize if this approach has been covered.

After my 12 year layoff I used the PETE. In doing my range exercises I experienced a blow out (air leakage) on the right side of my embouchure when playing notes above high C. The left side was no problem. My teeth are not even so the right side muscles were tasked to work extra hard to maintain my embouchure.

After a few weeks using the PETE for a few minutes each day things got better and I never used it again. After that, the practice session provided the necessary workout for the right side of my embouchure to get stronger.

For me, this was a good application of the PETE. It shortened the muscle development without having to beat up the lips for several months of blow-outs. BTW, this kind of air leakage is a good "safety-valve" to protect the chops.

Best of luck,

Gordon Stump
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chuck in ny · Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject:

gordon

you bring up the unstated, but salient point. you can use the device however is needed according to where you are at with your playing.
i have the idea that PETE exercise can be done right along for the duration. it may turn out that getting to some future level it is no longer necessary. getting to some happy point of endurance and range may be enough in itself.
it's a tool. i have seen enough to be convinced that it's worth having. how you wish to use it, completely according to your needs.

chuck in ny · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject:

more on using this device. i can now feel the muscular development that is happening. there is a different feel in the mouth area. moving the mouth to the left, then right, feels different than before, a bit thicker and more muscular.
the exercise itself is becoming a grooved motion. i will go 15 light pulls with the disc end. going much further the lips fatigue and lose their ability to firmly hold the disc close to the teeth. the idea is to slowly build up to more repetitions. i do not have as good a feel for the narrow end and am probably going to add intensity, the bit harder squeeze over a longer time, and a handful of repetitions of that. i have probably been going too easy with this.
i have very light muscle soreness all the time which is hopefully a sign of correct use and muscle growth. it isn't like going to the gym, with these very small muscle groups. it's going to be a slow study and take a number of months to acquire a good feel for what is going on and understand how to properly exercise.
there isn't anything the PETE device will do for you that can't be done with normal trumpet routines. what the device does is allow more rapid progress.