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Catholic Church gigs


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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oncewasaplayer - nice post.
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gjarrell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to payment or not as a parishioner...there has never been an expectation to play for free. And I've been doing this at one Catholic church or another since 1989. Currently, I do about 25 services a year for the Cathedral and Diocese services held at the Cathedral. I've been a parishioner since 2014. So, I play other services, sometimes twice a month, as a donation with gratitude for inclusion in the performing groups. I've been blessed to be able to play in such a place, with top local performers and music director. It's a personal choice for anyone. The hired musicians perform at a professional level, sometimes it's GRSO personnel, and no one begrudges them compensation as a professional. The Rector of the Cathedral and the Bishop both appreciate the enhancement that all the performers bring to the Masses. For any one of you who perform at smaller parish venues, I understand that there are different circumstances and points of view.
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jmichaelhurt
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, I am not Catholic but have played for no compensation at my home church more times than I can count. This particular church is in an upper middle class suburb of Atlanta. The building is big and beautiful and less than 10 years old (not that any of this matters).

I don't rely on the money from this church anymore to pay my bills(not that this matters either), I have a real 9-5 job that does that, however they expect me to come prepared to play whatever music is put in front of me and have always compensated me for my time until now. For me, that's what it's all about TIME. They have no problem paying me for my time when a trumpet is in my hands but for whatever reason my time in a training session is not valued the same.

Maybe Atlanta freelancers should be on the lookout for a new gig. I'll let you guys know how things work out.
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jmichaelhurt
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So no go on the getting out of the training or getting paid for it. They even said that they're only allowing for us to be paid for 2 hours this morning even though with a short rehearsal before and one service we were actually working 2 hours and 15 minutes. The time card even said to put your times down in 15 minute increments.

I know......this is getting tiresome, my apologies. All for a few bucks. Perhaps not worth the fuss but that feeling you get when you think you're getting screwed, yeah I got it.....perhaps it was time to move on from the gig anyway.....

I appreciate the comments guys.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmichaelhurt wrote:
So no go on the getting out of the training or getting paid for it. They even said that they're only allowing for us to be paid for 2 hours this morning even though with a short rehearsal before and one service we were actually working 2 hours and 15 minutes. The time card even said to put your times down in 15 minute increments.

What state is this? If you said I missed it.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmichaelhurt wrote:
So no go on the getting out of the training or getting paid for it. They even said that they're only allowing for us to be paid for 2 hours this morning even though with a short rehearsal before and one service we were actually working 2 hours and 15 minutes. The time card even said to put your times down in 15 minute increments.

I know......this is getting tiresome, my apologies. All for a few bucks. Perhaps not worth the fuss but that feeling you get when you think you're getting screwed, yeah I got it.....perhaps it was time to move on from the gig anyway.....

I appreciate the comments guys.


I am sorry, friend. It is amazing the mess people can make of a situation in such a short time, and how a church can be killed so quickly by poor leadership. I hope you are able to move on and find a place that appreciates your talents in a way that you feel both welcome and happy to be there.

AL
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmichaelhurt wrote:
So no go on the getting out of the training or getting paid for it. They even said that they're only allowing for us to be paid for 2 hours this morning even though with a short rehearsal before and one service we were actually working 2 hours and 15 minutes. The time card even said to put your times down in 15 minute increments.

I know......this is getting tiresome, my apologies. All for a few bucks. Perhaps not worth the fuss but that feeling you get when you think you're getting screwed, yeah I got it.....perhaps it was time to move on from the gig anyway.....

I appreciate the comments guys.

You live in the greater Atlanta area - find another gig without the BS attached and let some other sorry schlub deal with this church. Seriously - there are other gigs to be had and the one power you have in this situation is the power to say "no." Personally, I'd rather not gig than go through that kind of belittling. This church will find out soon enough when no one wants to gig there that they have adopted a poor policy when it comes to hiring freelance players for their special services.

Robert P wrote:
What state is this? If you said I missed it.

Unless I've missed something (his signature says he's a brass tech at Ken Stanton Music, and those are in Georgia, mostly around Atlanta.
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greg warthan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 6 years as choir director at a Catholic church, I was told that I had to become an employee. Had been a per service contractor. No idea what my new pay was to be, as nobody could answer that question. Lots of other requirements would have to be met, also. My tax position would have been impacted and I decided to quit. I was told that the changes were to cover them as far as their tax situation. Employee vs. contractor criteria. When I was presented with a printout of the criteria, I met nearly all of the contractor points. Hated to quit, but felt I had no alternative. This all took place in August 2016.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg warthan wrote:
After 6 years as choir director at a Catholic church, I was told that I had to become an employee. Had been a per service contractor. No idea what my new pay was to be, as nobody could answer that question. Lots of other requirements would have to be met, also. My tax position would have been impacted and I decided to quit. I was told that the changes were to cover them as far as their tax situation. Employee vs. contractor criteria. When I was presented with a printout of the criteria, I met nearly all of the contractor points. Hated to quit, but felt I had no alternative. This all took place in August 2016.


Tax situation? Aren't religious organizations tax exempt?
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:03 am    Post subject: Tax Exempt Organizations Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
Tax situation? Aren't religious organizations tax exempt?


Churches are exempt from income tax, but are required to pay employment taxes for the employees, i.e., Social Security, Workmen's Compensation, etc.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benge.nut wrote:
If you earn more than a certain amount a year, and with frequency you pass some limit to be paid as a contractor, and have to be paid as an employee for tax reasons.


This is false. There is no "limit" for a contractor to be paid, after which you are ipso facto an employee. As stated by a previous poster, a non-employee earning more than $600 in a year should be reported on form 1099.

The poster that said taxes were taken out, that in fact means they were an employee, not a contractor. That matters only in terms of how you file your income taxes.

[How do I know? I've been a contractor for 26 years, file my own taxes, and my Mom's career had the IRS answer to HER]
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm55 wrote:
If you're an employee, then they should be paying you for a mandatory three-hour training session. Depending on the details, it's likely a legal requirement for them to pay you.


EXCELLENT point! Also, this "change" should cost THEM, not you. (Easy to say, tough to take a stand on, I know)
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg warthan wrote:
After 6 years as choir director at a Catholic church, I was told that I had to become an employee. Had been a per service contractor. No idea what my new pay was to be, as nobody could answer that question.

No idea what the pay would be? Huh? They decided they needed to have you jump through all these paperwork hoops but didn't think this would be an obvious point you'd address? Sounds like either they seriously didn't have their stuff together or something else was going on.
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jmichaelhurt
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did email the HR person for the archdiocese of Atlanta and they responded by saying that my concerns were warranted and the issues I've been having were questionable. They were addressing it all with the church.

I'm hoping they change their policies and I get a call back to play for them again as an independent contractor. I liked the gig and left everything in good standing with the music director. She understood why I was leaving and had a member of the church fill in for me on the gigs I didn't do. We'll see I guess.
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greg warthan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know, Robert. A Deacon was brought in for three months. During this time, he made a lot of changes and left. I believe that there is a lot of c.y.a. involved. I was mailed some government forms that address this issue. I found nothing that should have changed my position. The pianist/organist went forward with the program. I have no idea what she made before nor after the change. Just another, in a long list of jobs/gigs.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMichael: glad you could maintain a good relationship with the MD! The rest of it may go either way, but you never know when you need that contact ...
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