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TrpPro
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razeontherock
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 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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No, but I'm very interested to hear from the many experts here on the topic. I think this was before Bell made his custom piece? But I may be entirely wrong about that. Not sure how '49 compares to his custom Calicchio? I think that's before he started playing his Conn 38B, which would mean he played this on a Committee?
Man he sounds great! This may be the earliest recording of MF I've ever heard |
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Larry Smithee
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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That's truly humbling. He's 21 years old when he pulled off this little number. Also, keep in mind he had only been seriously playing the trumpet for about 8 years. Oh, and it doesn't really matter what equipment he was using. He could have played that ... on one of those Chinese horns. It ain't the equipment.
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry Smithee wrote: | | he had only been seriously playing the trumpet for about 8 years. |
But during that time he was "seriously" playing; as well as toting music stands to rehearsal space which he also obtained, making or otherwise obtaining charts, auditioning players, etc etc etc. At 13!?! Amazing little kid. |
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shakuhachi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No, but I'm very interested to hear from the many experts here on the topic. I think this was before Bell made his custom piece? But I may be entirely wrong about that. Not sure how '49 compares to his custom Calicchio? |
....regarding mouthpiece: 1949 this only could be the hand sanded Rudy Muck 13c which later was copied by Dominic Calicchio 1955 becoming the today called HG (holy grail) which is available today from Roger Ingram and Pickett Brass as "Ingram Vintage Maynard" which is an exact copy of Maynards Calicchio he giftet to Mr. Ingram in the 90th.
It is told that the Rudy Muck 13c was the only mouthpiece at that time offering a v-cup like entry to the throat. To get there the rim was filed down getting smaller in id until meeting the v portion of the cup. There are different opinions if this was done by Maynard himself or by a friend called Johnny Distauldo (the latter information offered by Mr. Hollywood/Chris LaBarbera). |
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mcombo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| That Pickett Brass Ingram Vintage Maynard is outstanding. |
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Is the big guy in the photo, Ray Wetzel, any relation to Rich Wetzel?
Kent |
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: |
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+1
The Pickett/Ingram piece is outstanding !
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TrpPro
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think this vid is around the same time frame and there is about an
as-good-as-it's-gonna-get look at the mouthpiece at 2:32. It looks like it could be a Rudy Muck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TJtritSrGo |
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hahahahaha!!!! Thanks guys! Yeah!! Wow!
Chris Labarbera:
| Quote: | When I was a kid I played in a rehersal band in North Miami with the man who made Maynard's first 'V' cup mouthpiece.
His name was John Di Staldo and by the time I met him he was in pretty bad health suffering from emphysema. Every time he would take a breath your could hear him across the room, but even in his poor condition he was still a very strong lead player!
He told me that back in Canada he had a lathe in his basement where he would fool around making mouthpieces. One day Maynard's parent's came to him and asked him if he would make something for their son. He said he took a Rudy Muck 13C and cut down the rim and made it real flat, then rounded the inside and outside edges. When he was done with the rim he said he tried to make the cup like a " baby french horn cup "
Maynard was already playing on a 7C when John gave him the mouthpiece, he said Maynard had no real range at all at that point. He told me from then on every time he heard Maynard on the new mouthpiece that he sounded stronger and stronger.He said within a few months on that new mouthpiece that Maynard sounded just like he did when he was with Kenton.
My thoughts on this are that the unusual style mouthpiece and Maynard where meant for each other and came together at the right time and the right place. If you think about it most trumpet players ( myself included) are always changing rim shapes, inner diameters, cup depths ect. but for over fifty years Maynard had never deviated from John Di Staldo's original design. ( only in the last ten years or so with Monette, and from what I've heard he sounded way better on John's original design)
Maynard even says in his book that his first real mouthpiece was a Rudy Muck. And I remember going to see Maynard in the 1970's and getting backstage a few times and John Di Staldo was always back there hanging with Maynard.
I truly believe ( as well as many other trumpet players, many of them M.F alumni ) that had Maynard not found that mouthpiece at such a young age things might not have turned out the same.
For those of you who would say that its the man and not the mouthpiece, consider this; He has played it his entire career ( since he was around 15 ) Back then in the late 1930's and early 40's there was nothing available in a stock mouthpiece any where near that. If John hadn't custom made it for him he would have never gotten it. Dennis Noday told me that Maynard wouldn't even TRY another mouthpiece, not even for laughs. I have in my possession the English made mouthpiece that Maynard recorded the 1970 version of "Macarthur Park" on (it was a gift from Roger Ingram) I have also seen and played the original Callichio mouthpiece that Maynard used on Kenton's band ( also Rodger's) as well as the Giardinelli, the Jet-Tone and the Holton. They are all basically the same..... narrow shallow 'V' cup and flat rim with the inner and outer edges rounded off.
Chris
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Jacques Gilbert
| Quote: | check out another post from rec.trumpet by Jacques Gilbert:
""I heard another story about Maynard's first.mouthpiece. It was recounted to
me by Maurice Twigg. Maurice was a well known brass repairman in Montreal
during the 40's up until the 80's.. Maurice passed away some years ago and
left his business to his two sons who are now operating it on Saint-Hubert
street in the eastern part of Montreal. He told me that, when he was still
in his early teens, Maynard was taking trumpet lessons at Peate's Musical
Supply in downtown Montreal with his friend Johnny Distaulo. Johnny made the
trumpet scene in Montreal in the 50's as lead trumpet in numerous TV shows
on CBC and Radio Canada. At the time Johnny Distaulo used to fool around
with mp's using hand drills and sandpaper trying to come up with the magic
highnote mp (the one that we all have looked for at one time or another in
our life). Maurice said that one day after having tried everything he could
with one particular mp redesign he gave it to young Maynard who started
using it. According to Maurice Twigg the original MF Jet-Tone mp, whose cup
was flared out like the inside of a spittoon, was derived from this Distaulo
mp. Coming from Maurice Twigg who knew and worked for most of the
professional trumpet players in Montreal for over 40 years I think there are
many elements of truth in this story which I can't confirm unfortunately. JG"
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There's a story that, in the 90's for a short time, MF suffered some chop issues because of too big of a throat in his mouthpiece:
Roger Ingram:
| Quote: | The previous posts (and subsequent re-posts) regarding Maynard and his "discovery" of the basic mouthpiece design he used during his career are, for the most part, all true.
During the times I toured with Maynard and his band, on two different occasions, Maynard gave me one of his old mouthpieces. He did so because he knew that I am able to play that mouthpiece design. Because I earn a great deal of my income as a "commercial" player, I use different mouthpieces depending upon the type of work I do. This is common among commercial trumpet players. For instance, Wayne Bergeron and Lew Soloff both use many mouthpieces, depending on the type and/or style of work they do. Every successful commercial trumpet player I have been associated with uses the right tool for the job, ie, "you don't want to drive railroad spikes with a tack hammer."
I have 5 different mouthpieces I use regularly. I settled on these 5 different pieces around 18 years ago. I know each one like the back of my hand. Before I settled on these pieces, I experimented with literally hundreds of others. I have a huge box of these "experiments" in my basement. From time to time, when one of my students is on a quest for the right mouthpiece, I let him or her go through that box during one of our lessons. If they find something they like, I just give it to them. I'd rather have someone play it than have it just collecting dust.
Of my 5 regular mouthpieces, there are 2 that I use for lead playing and upper register work. Generally, when I'm playing lead trumpet on a big band, I use the Marcinkiewicz Roger Ingram signature model mouthpiece (model E12.4) with a 30 drill. Then, there is my "v-cup" mouthpiece that I use when I am asked to do specific work only in the upper register. This mouthpiece is based off the original MF-1 that Robert Giardinelli made for Maynard. Jack Onque (who was working for Giardinelli at the time) was the machinist who worked with Maynard on this project. This would be around 1961-62. I have used this style of mouthpiece on many recordings, including the "Blue Light, Red Light" album I did with Harry Connick, Jr.
While on Maynard's band, during a rehearsal when we were preparing for a new tour, I had a Schilke version of Maynard's mouthpiece in my case. This particular Schilke had a 22 drill, which was considerably smaller than the drill Maynard was then using. The 22 drill did not work for me, thus it was just laying around in my case. I handed the mouthpiece to Maynard and said, "here boss, I have one of your mouthpieces and the drill is too big for me." Maynard just sort of laughed, and said, "thank you." On the next tune at the rehearsal, he put it in his horn and tried it. He sounded beautiful on it and smiled. When that portion of the rehearsal was over, he put it in his pocket.  For the first week or so of the tour, he used that mouthpiece, and it was apparent to me and everyone else on the band that this mouthpiece was really working great for him. Even though the 22 drill was too big for me, it was smaller than the one Maynard had previously gotten used to. Eventually however, another mouthpiece manufacturer got hold of Maynard, and got him back on his huge drill again. In my opinion, he should've stuck to the 22.
Anyway, this rehearsal took place at the Ohai Women's Club, just a mile or so from Maynard's house. When we broke for lunch, after the morning portion of the rehearsal, Maynard went home, and the rest of us grabbed what we could to eat. When we all came back for the afternoon portion of the rehearsal, I went back to my seat and noticed an old mouthpiece had been placed into my trumpet. As I started to look at it, Maynard came up behind me and tapped me on the shoulder. He said, "and-uh, you gave me a gift, so here's one from me. I took it out of my mouthpiece drawer while I was at home. You're one of the very few players besides me that can play a mouthpiece this tight." Maynard was always very good about reciprocating gifts. He was a class act. He went on to say, "this is the mouthpiece Dominick Callichio cut out for me in L.A., and I used it on everything from about 1956 until the MF-1 was made. That Callichio mouthpiece was the model the MF-1 was designed from." I still have this mouthpiece. At one point, I considered selling it, and almost did, but at the last minute decided not to. I'm glad I held on to it.
The other mouthpiece Maynard gave me was the English made F.B.L. mouthpiece. When he handed this one to me, he told me that he used this mouthpiece for many of the recordings he made with his English band in the early 70s. This is the mouthpiece I gave to Chris LaBarbra (aka Johnson Long) as a gift.
Here is one interesting story I can add to the previous posts. During a conversation I had with Maynard one night on the bus, he told me that when he was a kid, he used to get the keys to the high school band instrument room from his parents (who were music teachers there) and go in on the weekends. As Maynard was very interested in ALL the various brass instruments, (and saxophones too) he would "mess around" with valve and slide trombone, baritone horn, euphonium, french horn, etc. This is when Maynard learned how to play so many different instruments; check out the cover to "Boy with Lots of Brass."
During the same conversation, I asked Maynard how he would describe his embouchure. He told me that basically it was just an old french horn embouchure. He used the term "einsetzen." Translated from German, this means "set in." He told me that during his experimentation with the french horn, he started to really "enjoy" the french horn style mouthpiece. Yes, the mouthpiece design that he used during his career was basically a "baby french horn" mouthpiece, fitted for a trumpet.
Maynard was born in 1928. All of this experimentation occurred when he was around 10-12 years old. Obviously, this would be around 1939-1941. In those years, there wasn't the great choice of mouthpieces available to a trumpet player as there is today. Even though this is the first I've heard of Johnny Distaulo, it is quite possible that this is a true story. However, Maynard DID tell me that when he was a kid, he used to get hold of Rudy Muck mouthpieces and in his words, "spend hours grinding the rim down on the sidewalk in front of my parents house to bring the cup down to the V portion at the bottom of the cup" (that only Rudy Muck mouthpieces possessed during those days.) After he would get to the V portion, Maynard told me he would use 5 or 6 different grades of sandpaper to smooth off the rim making it, in his words, "as smooth as a baby's bottom." If you think about it, this is why Maynard got used to such a narrow diameter. When you take down the sides of a funnel shaped object, and you get closer to the bottom, the diameter decreases. This explains many things. Perhaps Maynard's parents DID have Distaulo custom-make a mouthpiece for Maynard. If so, most likely, they were getting tired of all the brass shavings on their front sidewalk.
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely love these stories. A question ... I have the Ingram/Pickett reproduction mouthpiece (love it) and the Vintage MF 1 made by Greg Black on the old Giardinelli blank. It seems to me that the Vintage MF 1 is a tad deeper ... am I correct ? Anybody know ?
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Benge.nut
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Cool stories! Thanks for the read.
As far as depths of MF pieces my older Jet-tones were on the deeper side, the MF-1 Giardinelli and Holton MF3 were about the same medium shallow straight V cup.
Actually there were a bunch of different MF Jet-tones I owned with all kinds of different labeling, and varying degrees of depth. Most of the ones I owned were deeper than the Giardinelli and Holton, although I did have one just marked MF that was more shallow. |
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shakuhachi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Absolutely love these stories. A question ... I have the Ingram/Pickett reproduction mouthpiece (love it) and the Vintage MF 1 made by Greg Black on the old Giardinelli blank. It seems to me that the Vintage MF 1 is a tad deeper ... am I correct ? Anybody know ?
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Because I own and played all pieces - in the order from shallow to deep:
Ingram Vintage Maynard
Giardinelli MF1
Greg Black NY4
Holton MF3
Bell TM
Holton MF3 is definitley deeper than Giardinelly MF1.
Maynard went deeper until Jack Bell pieces. Back in US with Holton it was becoming a tad shallower again while experimenting with bore/throat size.
The Jet-Tone were deeper but this was compensated by the new convex design I think. Basis for the Jet-Ton were the Holton as I remember someone said. The inner rim becomes more rounded and the v-cup convex.
The over all deepest MF mouthpiece was the Bell TD what I can say from my collection.
Because I latest got a Jack Bell "Maynard Ferguson" without marking (TM, TD) from a Lady in UK for cornet and assuming the cornet pieces were identical to the trumpet pieces (TM, TD, unmarked) I can say that the unmarked Bell is near Holton MF3 - which means deeper than Giardinelly MF1 and Greg Black NY4.
Hope that helps. |
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ljazztrm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Absolutely love these stories. A question ... I have the Ingram/Pickett reproduction mouthpiece (love it) and the Vintage MF 1 made by Greg Black on the old Giardinelli blank. It seems to me that the Vintage MF 1 is a tad deeper ... am I correct ? Anybody know ? |
A careful reading of this thread should answer your question Rusty:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1143253
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As far as depths of MF pieces my older Jet-tones were on the deeper side, the MF-1 Giardinelli and Holton MF3 were about the same medium shallow straight V cup.
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Benge.nut, is that short for Benge.Nutmeg? Did you drink a whole mug of nutmeg before posting trying to be like Yardbird? My Holton MF3 is a medium-to-medium-deep V cup, absolutely perfect for small group jazz, commercial music on mic, and some classical stuff. If the Giardinelli MF-1 is the same depth, the Vintage Pickett MF is way shallower. Maybe you just got an anomaly? Check that thread I sent to Rusty and you'll see. I even had Jim New copy me a Holton MF3 top with a flugel backbore for when things get loud and I want to stay on flugel. All the best, Lex[/i]
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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ljazztrm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Because I own and played all pieces - in the order from shallow to deep:
Ingram Vintage Maynard
Giardinelli MF1
Greg Black NY4
Holton MF3
Bell TM
Holton MF3 is definitley deeper than Giardinelly MF1.
Maynard went deeper until Jack Bell pieces. Back in US with Holton it was becoming a tad shallower again while experimenting with bore/throat size.
The Jet-Tone were deeper but this was compensated by the new convex design I think. Basis for the Jet-Ton were the Holton as I remember someone said. The inner rim becomes more rounded and the v-cup convex.
The over all deepest MF mouthpiece was the Bell TD what I can say from my collection.
Because I latest got a Jack Bell "Maynard Ferguson" without marking (TM, TD) from a Lady in UK for cornet and assuming the cornet pieces were identical to the trumpet pieces (TM, TD, unmarked) I can say that the unmarked Bell is near Holton MF3 - which means deeper than Giardinelly MF1 and Greg Black NY4.
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Thanks for the great info Shak, I sold my Greg Black NY4 awhile back so I forgot. Good to know I'm playing on the shallowest for my lead stuff:-) What about the Groovin High? I always heard the top was the exact copy of MF's HG but the backbore was different. Also Dan has a GH2, 3, and 4 and I understand that these are the same top too, except the bite gets progressively softer.
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
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1jazzyalex
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Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | | Larry Smithee wrote: | | he had only been seriously playing the trumpet for about 8 years. |
But during that time he was "seriously" playing; as well as toting music stands to rehearsal space which he also obtained, making or otherwise obtaining charts, auditioning players, etc etc etc. At 13!?! Amazing little kid. |
"As might be expected, Maynard's innate musical talents were exhibited at an early age. He has been performing since he first soloed as a child prodigy with the Canadian Broadcasting Co. orchestra in 1939 when Maynard was 11 years old. Born in Montreal, Quebec in May 1928, he was encouraged by his mother, a violinist and school principal, and by age four was playing piano and violin. By nine, he had enrolled in the French Conservatory of Music where he received his formal training. "When people ask me who were my major influences, I tell them my mother and Louis Armstrong," says the trumpeter.
Maynard Ferguson had his own jazz and dance band at 16. All the players were twice his age except his brother, Percy." - From maynard.ferguson.net
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