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Pivoting while buzzing the mouthpiece



 
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Dbfinn
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Joined: 30 Jan 2016
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:50 am    Post subject: Pivoting while buzzing the mouthpiece Reply with quote

I have just noticed that if I buzz in the mouthpiece and pull it up the pitch goes higher and if I pull down the pitch goes down. I have not been typed by an expert but this is how I play, so I was wondering if the same happens to everyone. If so, it could be a quick test to detect the type of pivot. What do you think?
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


Joined: 28 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Pivoting while buzzing the mouthpiece Reply with quote

Dbfinn wrote:
I have just noticed that if I buzz in the mouthpiece and pull it up the pitch goes higher and if I pull down the pitch goes down. I have not been typed by an expert but this is how I play, so I was wondering if the same happens to everyone. If so, it could be a quick test to detect the type of pivot. What do you think?


Reinhardt frowned on mouthpiece buzzing . . . what your experiment proves would be a mystery to me. I have not buzzed my mouthpiece since June 1978.

Doc has a series of tests you can do yourself in the Encyclopedia of the Pivot System. I would suggest trusting that more than mouthpiece buzzing which is subject to myriad unknown variables.
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Benge.nut
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I often pivot when I catch a buzz...and stagger and stumble and slur my words

But seriously there are tons of chop videos explaining track and pivot and examples show what you're experiencing. Also reading or rereading some of Doc's writings should provide you answers on what you're doing.

But buzzing on the mouthpiece is not the same as playing trumpet and you'll probably have different results.
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JoshMizruchi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a pretty big endorser of the "no mouthpiece buzzing" philosophy, although I recognize and acknowledge many great players do buzz. I used to buzz myself and had some success that way, but when I took my first lesson with Rich, he got me off of it. It took a little while to get used to, but it did work. My aperture got more focused, and I saved countless minutes of time, plus it shortened my warm up so I didn't have to spend an hour or more warming up anymore.

The only problem, dare I say, with the "no mouthpiece buzzing" approach is this. If you're not warmed up enough, and you put the horn up to your face to make sound, you might get nothing and pinch, or just get "slop" for a while.

The other side of the coin is everything speaking perfectly right away, but it's because you're over-warmed up, and you may get tired quicker.

Anyone else encounter this issue? How did you deal with it? I have experimented with just letting the warm up be slop. And Chris L. gave me the tip of blowing air into the mouthpiece (no sound) before playing, which Reinhardt was OK with. I just balance it all as best as I can and it seems to work, but I feel like this topic should be brought to light. Anything else I'm missing?

In my opinion, this is an important issue that I've never seen discussed in this forum, or anywhere else really. The only guy who I've seen mention it is Doc Severinsen, (in his warm-up clinic).
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Dbfinn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The motivation of my post was not to discuss about buzzing in the mouthpiece as a regular practice in out daily routine but to use it to spot the pivot type. My change in pitch when moving the mouthpiece up an down while buzzing matches my (assumed) pivot when playing the trumpet. I do not know if the same happens to most people, if so, it could be an alternative method to find the pivot type.

In regard to using the mouthpiece buzzing in daily routine, the logic behind is that it is much more difficult to keep a stable pitch so you gain more control. I have started doing it and I am getting better at buzzing the mouthpiece, but not sure yet if it is being transferred to playing trumpet.

For the warm up, the key point, as per the Encyclopedia, is to get back previous day sensations, bearing in mind that new sensations are new only the first time. The sensation theory is helping me a lot but on the other side I was focusing too much on lips sensations which I think was leading to too much lip manipulation and getting tired during the warm up (I am still a beginner). Now I am focusing on global sensations, including breath and posture - more holistic approach and it is helping my endurance.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are interested in Reinhardt's ideas, the best thing you can do now is to have one of the experts here type you. As far as buzzing goes, being that you are a beginner, and being that it is more difficult to produce a sound on the mouthpiece than on the trumpet, I would avoid it. Not to mention that Doc frowned upon it.
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JoshMizruchi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one thing the guys here tried to tell me when I first came to the forum (about 12 years ago now, whoa!) was that the Reinhardt forum was supposed to preserve strictly the ideas of Reinhardt in the purest, most undiluted form.

That meant not posting about non-Reinhardt exercises unless you were discussing why Reinhardt didn't endorse these methods. Mouthpiece buzzing is one thing, pedal tones would probably be the best example. Doc really didn't like pedal tones.

I know that sounds kind of un-welcoming, but it isn't meant that way. It's simply to preserve the man's theories as closely as possible so it doesn't become a melting pot of other theories.

That's not to say other methods aren't good. It's about preserving Doc's ideas; it's a dedicated forum. Like if I posted in the Caruso forum, I would want my post to stay true to what Carmine Caruso taught.

Strict? Maybe. But kind of a necessary rule.
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Dbfinn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood. I am ok to delete the post if moderator think it breaks the rules. Cheers!
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dbfinn wrote:
Understood. I am ok to delete the post if moderator think it breaks the rules. Cheers!

No worries . . . at least you aren't pretending to be somebody who thinks he can tell us how Reinhardt's teaching would have "evolved" in the years since he left us.


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