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Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4



 
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Blueblue
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:39 am    Post subject: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

Anyone have both the 11F4 and 14F4,

or can you tell something about one of them?

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zaferis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simple answer = the 14 series is a larger diameter rim.

Yamaha 11 series approximately equal to Bach 7
Yamaha 14 series approximately equal to Bach 3
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Blueblue
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you agree the 11F4 is a good starters Flugel mouthpiece?

Yamaha site:

Flugelhorn 11F4
16.46
semi-flat/
3.80 standard
Medium inner rim diameter and unique "U" cup for extra endurance. Excellent attack.
Easy for beginners.
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely! I was using the MP on my ACB Doubler Flugel and it worked great. I'm selling that horn now so I don't use it any longer.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Yamaha "4" rim is medium wide fairly flat with just enough inner edge to give most folks enough hold. Compares favorably to the shape and feel of a Bach 3C. This is a pretty good fit for a lot of folks and it's a very popular rim shape. Though there are some who need rounder rims or sharper bites who won't excel on this rim.

The size 11 is about the same size as a Bach 7C though the rim shape and bite are more similar to the Bach 3C.

I play a smaller vintage Bach 3C rim and use the Yamaha 14F4 on my flugel and the 11C4 on my picc (though I'm looking for a cornet shank 11B4). Transitioning between them is never a problem for me.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blueblue wrote:
Can you agree the 11F4 is a good starters Flugel mouthpiece?

Yamaha site:

Flugelhorn 11F4
16.46
semi-flat/
3.80 standard
Medium inner rim diameter and unique "U" cup for extra endurance. Excellent attack.
Easy for beginners.


I saw a YouTube video of a guy (Michael Grasso?) demonstrating a Getzen Eterna, Jupiter 846 & Kanstul 1523 & I would say that the sound (using the 14F4 is surprising dark (on all flugelhorns).... darker than my Curry FLM. But I Yamaha does have a wide throat @ 4.3mm, and that contributes to dark timbre, whereas the Curry is only 3.99mm. Is the 14 Yamsha's shallow as the Curry FL-M?


Last edited by bassguy on Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 11F4, changed to a Warburton, then to a Wick 4FL and then to a 14F4. Love the Yammies but after the Wick 4 FL the 14F4 was very weird to play. The first two days I thought that it was a complete failure. I could not play on it. But after a few days everything opened up, it is a great flugelpiece with a really jazzy sound. At least for me.
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McVouty
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Yamaha 14F4 as well a a Curry 3FL., a Warburton 4FL and a Bach 3CFL. They are all very similar size with the Bach having the roundest rim and the Warburton the flattest. I find myself favouring the Curry and the Yamaha most of the time - the Bach is a bit too 'trumpet-like' for me and the Warburton is probably the fluffiest sound - closest to the British brass band sound. The Yamaha is almost identical to the curry, but maybe a tad smaller diameter and a bit tighter blow.

The Yamahas are good, inexpensive mouthpieces - the only thing to watch is the shank size. The Yamahas wont fit a flugel with the narrow Bach taper properly. If you have a Yamaha or most non-Bach American made flugels you should be OK.

Hope that helps!
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

11F4 is surprisingly small rim size. People are comparing it to Bach 7, and while I'm sure Bach has made some that small and labeled it '7' I have never seen one that small.

Either size, 11 or 14, is a nice mpc
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

Blueblue wrote:
Anyone have both the 11F4 and 14F4,

or can you tell something about one of them?


I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb. I have used the 14B4 but currently use the 11B4 on picc.

I find the Yamaha flugel pieces very reasonable sounding and easy to play.

For a short time I had a Reeves 42FE and decided it sounded and played too similar to the Yamaha to justify keeping it. No knock on Reeves pieces, in fact I'm looking forward to try his HF cup.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McVouty wrote:
I have the Yamaha 14F4 as well a a Curry 3FL., a Warburton 4FL and a Bach 3CFL. They are all very similar size with the Bach having the roundest rim and the Warburton the flattest. I find myself favouring the Curry and the Yamaha most of the time - the Bach is a bit too 'trumpet-like' for me and the Warburton is probably the fluffiest sound - closest to the British brass band sound. The Yamaha is almost identical to the curry, but maybe a tad smaller diameter and a bit tighter blow.

The Yamahas are good, inexpensive mouthpieces - the only thing to watch is the shank size. The Yamahas wont fit a flugel with the narrow Bach taper properly. If you have a Yamaha or most non-Bach American made flugels you should be OK.

Hope that helps!


You have the Curry FL, so I am very curious: is the 14F4 a little shallower, or the same depth as the Curry FL?
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delano
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:

I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb.


I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contrarian view on Yamaha flugel pieces here. They are by far my least favorite. I find them much less responsive and the sound is just dull and unexciting.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Contrarian view on Yamaha flugel pieces here. They are by far my least favorite. I find them much less responsive and the sound is just dull and unexciting.

I have the 14F4. Seemed fine.

I later got a ACB flugel piece and a ACB FX mouthpieces - flugel cup for trumpet, but can apparently be used AS a flugel pieces (silly me, I played it strictly as a flugel piece for months). Putting those in my flugel resulted in "Ahhh, yeah. Nice!" Bonus - they played easier as well.

It's worth it to at least try something else to see. You never know until you try...
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

delano wrote:
cheiden wrote:

I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb.


I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup.


Hi delano

Yes, it does look like the 11F4 and 14F4 have different cup shapes.

i.e.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/mouthpieces/brass/flugelforns_series/?mode=series#tab=PD5115635

All the best

Lou
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
delano wrote:
cheiden wrote:

I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb.

I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup.

Hi delano

Yes, it does look like the 11F4 and 14F4 have different cup shapes.

i.e.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/mouthpieces/brass/flugelforns_series/?mode=series#tab=PD5115635

All the best

Lou

I stand corrected. Thanks for the education.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
delano wrote:
cheiden wrote:

I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb.

I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup.

Hi delano

Yes, it does look like the 11F4 and 14F4 have different cup shapes.

i.e.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/mouthpieces/brass/flugelforns_series/?mode=series#tab=PD5115635

All the best

Lou


Hi cheiden

I stand corrected. Thanks for the education.

You are very welcome, but I was only quoting from the Yamaha website in agreement with Delano.

Take care

Lou

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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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