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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2649
Location: Anacortes, WA

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

I believe the flugelhorn thing is based more on employment prospects. You can't work, or teach full time being just a flugelhornist.

He does:

https://dmitrimatheny.com/

I've been to many of his shows. Great sound and a great guy. He gives lessons via Skype if anyone is interested.
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Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject:

Richard III wrote:

Quote:

Didn't you write that you had issues, range & intonations (maybe even endurance) limitations playing your Jupiter. You seemed to resolve those issues buying a more expensive Adams? Not exactly a fixer upper from a theft store was it?

[/quote=Richard III"]Ah, the old days. When I was chasing some kind of better flugel version. The Jupiter had a fine sound but I wanted darker in those days. I had problems with range with that horn as well as a Conn Vintage One flugel. When I tried the Adams all of those went away. The Adams F2 was costly and very smokey. I passed it up. Then my interests started to change and I got tired of smokey and dark. The Adams F1 was light and easy to play. I came into some money and decided to pull the trigger on the F1. Fine playing horn. As time moved on I played flugel less and cornet more. Then I played the Bundy and it was a cross between a flugel and a cornet. If I knew what the future was back then, I could have saved a bunch of time and money and just bought one of those. So easy to play and flugelly enough for me now. Still, how much would I really play it? Not sure. I loves me the sound of a nice cornet.

I want the same as you did. Easier to play high & long, & just a bit darker. I'll take a cornet over a trumpet any day, but...

Actually those Jinbao rotary valve cornets are very attractive. That's something I could enjoy sceaching my brains out on 'Mas Que Nada" If I had money to burn I'd get one. Those cornets are all coiled up like a pocket trumpee, but with full size bells. Really cute

While on the subject of cornets, do you think Red Nickles real life daughter was as hot as Tuesday Weld?

Last edited by bassguy on Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:31 pm; edited 5 times in total

razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:07 pm Post subject:

Red / rose brass may not matter much I don't know, but solid copper sure does! I like it. When Chuck Mangione tried out an all copper Calicchio, his guitar player told him if he goes back to the silver one he'll quit. Chuck hasn't played the Yamaha since, despite the whole horn getting smashed / misshapen in the overhead of a plane, in a gig bag. He also wishes he wrote Feels So Good in a lower key! Btw I play a FO extreme, size 1. Bigger than my Wick 2, which I also love

bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:08 pm Post subject:

razeontherock wrote:

Red / rose brass may not matter much I don't know, but solid copper sure does! I like it. When Chuck Mangione tried out an all copper Calicchio, his guitar player told him if he goes back to the silver one he'll quit. Chuck hasn't played the Yamaha since, despite the whole horn getting smashed / misshapen in the overhead of a plane, in a gig bag.

He also wishes he wrote Feels So Good in a lower key!

Btw I play a FO extreme, size 1. Bigger than my Wick 2, which I also love

The FO extreme is too much for me, as my Wicks 4 FL is too much (love the sound).

The mishap, the copper flugelhorn? Must have been easy to bang out those dents. That's the most intriguing high end flugelhorn description I've heard. Wish I was rich.

When did Mangione switch to the Calicchio? I have an awesome sounding 1999 Chesky recording of Mangione entitled 'the feeling's back. Much much darker sound, but the reverberant church, & sonic signature of the CD is dark.

Can you tell me who the guitarist is. In 1986 while attending a Redlands Summer Conducting Institute a guy came to check things out. He had quit playing guitar for Mangione & was ghost writing for Mike Post (who composed much television music, including 'the Rockford Files') & he had considered learning to conduct, as conducting helps . He singled me out to pick my brain, & I must say he was so well mannered.

bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject:

Richard III wrote:

Quote:

I believe the flugelhorn thing is based more on employment prospects. You can't work, or teach full time being just a flugelhornist.

He does:

https://dmitrimatheny.com/

I've been to many of his shows. Great sound and a great guy. He gives lessons via Skype if anyone is interested.

I might actually consider lessons from him. My inability to play in the upper register is disconcerting now. I'm talking about Fs & Gs.

Also, I think I should have looked into Yamaha 13 or 14 F4 as well as curry.

Honestly Richard, do you think I would progress faster if I practiced mostly on a cornet instead of flugelhorn?

Also, to what extent did going from the Jupiter to the lighter Adams improve your range?

cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject:

bassguy wrote:

Can you tell me who the guitarist is.

Back in the day the guitarist was Grant Geissman.

I have no idea about the quote.

I was a huge Chuck fan in the 70s-80s and loved his sound then. Only seen once him since then around 2000 and didn't really pay attention to the model of the horn.

Yeah,...we all wish Feel So Good was in a lower key.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2649
Location: Anacortes, WA

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Honestly Richard, do you think I would progress faster if I practiced mostly on a cornet instead of flugelhorn?

Also, to what extent did going from the Jupiter to the lighter Adams improve your range?

You progress on whatever you practice. If your goal is to play flugelhorn, play the flugelhorn. Next question is what do you want to sound like? Play the mouthpiece and horn combination that gives you that sound.

Honestly, the Adams just made the range easier not possible.

Regarding lessons. I took one lesson with several different people on trumpet and flugel. I took a bunch of lessons from someone on french horn. Everything helps. A good teacher listens to you and recommends a plan. It's up to you to follow the plan. I don't need lots of lessons of push push push. Just give me the path. Dmitri was great in that he listened to me and what I wanted to accomplish and gave me a way to get there.

I listen to guys all the time in my band. Getting rid of tension, air support used correctly and appropriate tongue arch seems to be the keys to everything. Getting people to do all of that is what good teachers seem to be able to communicate in such a way that makes it work. Flugel isn't like trumpet and cornet with regards to those factors.
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Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject:

Richard III wrote:

Quote:

I wish I could cut & paste a really cool YouTube link of Michael Grasso demonstrating a Getzen Eternal, a Jupiter 846 & a Kanstul 1525 playing standards & switching instruments every minute or so. Very good demonstration, & easy to find on youtube under 'flugelhorn comparison'. This may surprise you that I really feel the differences aren't too terribly significant, & all those instruments fit within the parameter of my iideal jazz flugelhorn sound.

The .460 Eterna does sound a bit "trumpety" (edgy) in the lower register (Like my .460 Hawk) but it still sounds acceptable.

Grasso is using a Yamaha 14F4 mouthpiece which is quite comparable to a Curry FL, as both are deeper than a Curry FLM & both the 14F4 & Curry FL have 4.3mm throats. I love the sound of my Curry FL but the slightly brighter Yamaha seems to nail down my concept of what a flugelhorn should sound like

My complaint about my own sound is that using the shallow Curry FLM I want to sound darker, but the extra conicity that a smaller bore presents, along with a rose brass bell isn't going to dramatically change things, as the FLM it is shallow, & I now feel that the FLM's brightness doesn't make up for any increased range & endurance.

Furthermore, when playing shallow flugelhorn mouthpieces, such as the Conn 7CFL or Curry FLM, my upper lip gets a bit of a sharp pain about 1/8" from center on the left side--not too painful to keep me from playing. Of course when I play my 7FL, no pain at all.

Also, it was nice of you to pm that Bundy link. I thought that Bundy was just like the 183 Strad, my friend has ut it's like that Bach cornet/flugelhorn hybrid. Yes, not quite appealing just in appearance alone. Best to just stick with the Hawk. But thanx again!

Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:50 am Post subject:

Hi bassguy If you are referring to these clips, one of the ways of doing it is as follows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpwkZlfJ5mY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ud61QbZr68 I know that there is a more sophisticated way, that shows the YouTube screen in your post, but I don't know how to do it either. All the best Lou _________________ Trumpets: Yamaha 8335 Xeno II Bach Strad 180ML/37 B&H Oxford Kanstul F Besson C Yamaha D and D/Eb - James R New Custom 3Cs Flugel: Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL Cornets: Yamaha Neo + Xeno Bach Strad 184ML B&H Imperial - Kanstul Custom 3Cs

Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2649
Location: Anacortes, WA

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 am Post subject:

Thanks Lou for posting those. Quite interesting. Regarding Bassguy's comments:

Quote:

This may surprise you that I really feel the differences aren't too terribly significant, & all those instruments fit within the parameter of my iideal jazz flugelhorn sound.

Part of the similarities is the style of player. I really liked the Jupiter sound. The Getzen sounded like it had a sock in it. The Kanstul sounded a bit like it would easily break up and was too large a bore for his style.
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Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:09 am Post subject:

Richard III wrote:

Thanks Lou for posting those. Quite interesting.

Hi RichardIII

You are very welcome. Obviously I was just posting the ones that I presumed that Bassguy was referring to, rather than posting them on my own back.

Regarding Bassguy's comments:

Quote:

This may surprise you that I really feel the differences aren't too terribly significant, & all those instruments fit within the parameter of my iideal jazz flugelhorn sound.

I fully agree with Bassguy that the differences aren't really that significant, and what really prevails is the inherent sound and style of the player. I agree with Richard III to some extent regarding the perceived playability of the Kanstul, but I like the Kanstul sound best of all.

Best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

bassguy
Veteran Member

Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject:

See, I am not as fussy as one may think. I liked all 3, the Kanstul was kinda tubby, but that's splitting hairs. Update. I sent back the Curry 3FLM for a refund, & am playing just the Curry 7 FLi am liking my sound (a lot) & am hitty Gs consistently providing I keep my practice intervals short. The point is, no more shallow mouthpieces. I don't like the bright sound & they cause pain. Also, you can't get the sound I want using a Curry FLM. Michael Grasso would not have sounded the same on those videos using a Curry 5FLM rather than the Yamsha 14F4 he used--as.distinct is his timbral signature is. Question to anyone reading: On Freddie Hubbard's 1972 recording of the Godfather, does he start the theme on trumpet, & later do his improved solo on flugelhorn?

Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:46 am Post subject:

bassguy wrote:

See, I am not as fussy as one may think. I liked all 3, the Kanstul was kinda tubby, but that's splitting hairs.

Hi bassguy

I didn't think that you were particularly fussy, just wanting a less bright sound with an easier upper register, which is probably a little contradictory combination to achieve. At least on my speakers, I didn't think the Kanstul was particularly tubby sounding.

Update. I sent back the Curry 3FLM for a refund, & am playing just the Curry 7 FLi am liking my sound (a lot)

That is good to hear.

& am hitty Gs consistently providing I keep my practice intervals short.

I think that keeping the practice intervals short is what is helping most of all.

The point is, no more shallow mouthpieces. I don't like the bright sound & they cause pain.

Fair enough, but I can't say I agree about shallower flugel mouthpieces causing pain, as even the shallower flugel mouthpieces aren't shallow in the scheme of things.

Re, you saying the following, my advice would be to ascertain why, as this shouldn't in my opinion be happening, particularly with flugel mouthpieces:

Furthermore, when playing shallow flugelhorn mouthpieces, such as the Conn 7CFL or Curry FLM, my upper lip gets a bit of a sharp pain about 1/8" from center on the left side--not too painful to keep me from playing. Of course when I play my 7FL, no pain at all.

Also, you can't get the sound I want using a Curry FLM. Michael Grasso would not have sounded the same on those videos using a Curry 5FLM rather than the Yamsha 14F4 he used--as.distinct is his timbral signature is.

Regarding this, I admittedly haven't looked particularly hard for a clip of him playing a Curry FLM, but he is playing a Bach 6CFL on the following clip, along with the Yamaha 14F4 and Curry 3FL and 3FLD. Admittedly the Bach 6CFL isn't probably as shallow as the Curry FLM, but if you look at the BFL6C on the Kanstul comparator, it is not a particularly deep flugel mouthpiece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lQinmphCg

You will probably lynch me for saying this, but whilst listening to the above clip whilst concentrating on composing this post, the difference in sound between the different mouthpieces wasn't particularly obvious to me. All I heard was Michael Grasso. When I stopped typing and listened to the clip, I could hear the difference. Although the difference seemed quite marked and obvious when I was specifically listening for it, it was far less apparent when I wasn't paying it much attention. For this reason, especially since there would be no direct comparison, I can't see it would make any difference at all to the audience, whichever mouthpiece Michael Grasso took to a gig, because his natural sound and particularly his approach is what they would hear.

Probably owing to what I play, I preferred his sound on the Bach 6CFL. Other's will probably disagree.

Question to anyone reading: On Freddie Hubbard's 1972 recording of the Godfather, does he start the theme on trumpet, & later do his improved solo on flugelhorn?

Do you mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xv2asH3AIc

I haven't time to listen to it at the moment(must get on with housework), so will let others see what they think.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

bassguy
Veteran Member

Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject:

Louise Finch wrote:

bassguy wrote:

Hi again,

I checked out the mouthpiece link & agree that the differences as presented aren't that marked. I was shocked at how dark the 6C came across. However I have some doubt's concerning the recording. I am familiar with the Curry FLD & FL, & can tell you that even though the overall timbre is darker due to its added depth & wider throat, the FLD can be perceived as brighter than the FL due to a resonance peak (maybe 3khz...just a guess). No hint of that on the recordings.
Frankly the sound of this YouTube video seems muffled.

Also, I did some playing along with the rwcording using my FL, & my FL was pretty bright compared to his. On my FL-M I was noticeably brighter than the FL, & in person demonstrations for musician frends certainly confirmed that the FL was more flugelhorn sounding than the FLM.

BTW, the Saturday night I went to the 29 Palms Inn to try out my friwnd's Bach 183, I went into the lobby with my own flugelhorn to demonstrate it to the young woman booking reservations. In my demonstration I used my Wicks 4FL & the deep resonance in that room was inspiring. To this day she tells people how the whole room vibrated, & she's looking forward to my incorporate flugelhorn solos in our act at the Inn. I can hit Gs on that 4FL like I can on the Curry 7FL. But not for long. I have to be cold to play the Wicks. It slots better then any of my other mouthpiwces--aa lonseries'm cold! Who knows, someday I might use it regularly. The Wicks is dark, but also has a resonance peak (maybe @ 800hz, or 1khz?) that gives it a certain presence & bite, that keeps it from sounding muffled. That Wicks mouthpiece plays so much better in the low to middle register.

Lastly, even though I wrote I am through screwing around with gear, I decided to take a look at Yamaha. (I was inspired by Grasso's flugelhorn comparison using his Yamaha 14F4. Yamaha fh mouthpieces shouldn't be overlooked given that they're cheap & well regarded.

I looked into Yamah's standard series & found the 13F4 is a slightly smaller rimmed (16.66mm) version of the 14F4 (16.76mm). There is also a smaller rimmed 7F4 (16.24mm) but the shape of the v cup might differ a bit from the 13, 14, 16 & 17F4s, maybe not really different as ALL those models have 4.3mm throats-like the Curry FLs. The Yamaha 11F4 is completwly different! It has a trumpet style U cup & a trumpet sized 3.80mm throat, & is a flugelhorn variation of it's Yamaha trumpet counterpart. The 11F4 is said to be a great starter for flugelhornusts. I ordered a used one for $13. I also ordered new 7F4 & 13F4 that can be returned. (Curiosity got the best of me!)

While on the subject, back in February I wrote that my target mouthpiece was a 7 or 5 FL, & that I should probably start with a 10.5, & progress to an 8.5 FL, and so forth. Guido urged me to consider just playing my target mouthpiece. (Carrying that logic a step further, I should just use that Wicks 4 FL!)

About mouthpieces, one THF user wrote that they are like shoe sizes, & only one can fit optimally. Well kids quickly outgrow shoes & players (& comeback players) outgrow mouthpieces as rhey develop. On trumpet & cornet I started with a Bach 7C & ended with a Bach 1. One can ask if I were making a trumpet comeback, should I start with a 17.5mm inner rimmed Bach 1?

Lastly, when you check out the godfather theme, also please remember to check out Mangione's original studio recording of Feel so Good. I want to see if you think his high d sounds trumpety. He is not Clark Terry or Marvin Stamm, but I think it's unfair for some to laugh & say he's the Kenny G of the flugelhorn.

PS. How can one account for the pain while playing the shallow Curry FL-M or Conn 7 CFL.? Back pressure from the shallow cup? Frankly the least amount of backpressuer I experience is when playing the Wicks 4 FL. All the others, a significant build up off.air makes the uppermost portion of my cheeks puff out, while playing near the top of the staff & above.

The shallow Yamaha 11F4 might provide some insight. Could Alpha angle be a factor? I don't know. GR's analogy using a door hinge us jiiberish to me, I quickly lose patience reading ANYRHING GR writes. All muddied up with useless technical crap. Rather than lame analogy, a large illustration of the air stream inside a mouthpiece would suffice.

Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:13 am Post subject:

Hi bassguy I have a busy day ahead but will try to reply some time over the weekend. I know that I have already said, but I am only an amateur player, so please keep this in mind when considering anything I say. Take care Lou _________________ Trumpets: Yamaha 8335 Xeno II Bach Strad 180ML/37 B&H Oxford Kanstul F Besson C Yamaha D and D/Eb - James R New Custom 3Cs Flugel: Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL Cornets: Yamaha Neo + Xeno Bach Strad 184ML B&H Imperial - Kanstul Custom 3Cs

dstdenis
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Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:46 am Post subject:

bassguy wrote:

About mouthpieces, one THF user wrote that they are like shoe sizes, & only one can fit optimally. Well kids quickly outgrow shoes & players (& comeback players) outgrow mouthpieces as rhey develop. On trumpet & cornet I started with a Bach 7C & ended with a Bach 1. One can ask if I were making a trumpet comeback, should I start with a 17.5mm inner rimmed Bach 1?

Mouthpiece rim diameters are kind of like shoe sizes, except that, unlike shoes, there isn't just one size that can fit optimally. With mouthpieces, there is a range of rim diameters that work well for each player.

Smaller than that, and the player struggles to get enough lip vibrating surface inside the cup without resting the rim on the red part of the lip, which can cause problems.

Larger than that, and the player struggles to play strenuous repertoire, not just because there's more lip in the cup, but also since the cup volume is usually proportionally larger. Even William Vacchiano had a mouthpiece that he said he liked for sound but that was too large for him for playability, and he was an incredibly strong player.

I play mouthpieces with a rim diameter that's larger than the average mouthpiece, but I do that only to get enough lip inside the rim, including a small allowance for swelling that I might experience during a strenuous performance or rehearsal. I compensate for the larger piece by using a medium shallow cup and tight backbore to reduce volume. There are bigger pieces out there, but I'm not interested in making things any more difficult!

I don't think an adult comeback player would outgrow a mouthpiece as s/he develops. Pick one that fits and that gives the sound profile and playability you want with a particular instrument, and stick with it. No need to change, unless your initial choice wasn't quite right, or maybe if you change instruments or start playing a different style of music.

Once you've made a reasonable mouthpiece choice, there's a lot the comeback player can do to make it work by practicing the right things the right way and allowing time for development.
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bassguy
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Posts: 336

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:13 am Post subject:

dstdenis wrote:

bassguy wrote:

The wicks 4FL gives me the perfect sound, works VERY well in the middle register, but going above the staff it does present endurance issues, & range diminishes radically as fatigue sets in. The Curry 7FL (being deeper & having a narrower throat presents less fatigue issues, & I can hit more Gs with it. Going with smaller mouthpieces gives a lean sound, some better range & endurance, but not a Hell of a lot. So you think starting small & going bigger is wrong headed; just suffer with limited range & endurance & expect that those issues will ameliorate using the Wicks 4FL? (The Curry FL is OK, but the Wicks is the real deal for sound!)

dstdenis
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Location: Atlanta GA

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:01 am Post subject:

bassguy wrote:

The wicks 4FL gives me the perfect sound, works VERY well in the middle register, but going above the staff it does present endurance issues, & range diminishes radically as fatigue sets in. The Curry 7FL (being deeper & having a narrower throat presents less fatigue issues, & I can hit more Gs with it. Going with smaller mouthpieces gives a lean sound, some better range & endurance, but not a Hell of a lot.

So you think starting small & going bigger is wrong headed; just suffer with limited range & endurance & expect that those issues will ameliorate using the Wicks 4FL? (The Curry FL is OK, but the Wicks is the real deal for sound!)

"Wrong headed" might be too strong. Personally, I just wouldn't use a rim diameter any larger than necessary because I wouldn't want to regret the choice as I run out of gas near the end of a performance or rehearsal. "Just big enough, but no bigger" is my motto.

Now cup volume is a different story, and I think it makes sense to separate rim diameter considerations from cup volume. That's what I did: I started with a rim diameter that's a good fit. That's non-negotiable.

But then the standard cups in that rim size have lots of volume, so I downsized the cup volume and backbore to help with endurance and range on trumpet. Not too shallow, though, because I don't want to sound overly bright for the music I play. I did the same thing with my flugel mouthpiece--same rim, smaller cup--not for range/endurance, but to get a sound that blends better with other flugelhorns in the groups where I play.

You might take a similar approach with your choices. You say you love the sound of the Wick 4FL, but range and endurance is difficult. First question: is the rim diameter a good fit for you? Not too big, not too small? If so, stick with something in that range (about 16.50 mm, according to the Wick spec sheet).

Now that you have the rim diameter settled, what about the sound? You love the sound of the Wick 4FL, but range/endurance is difficult. Have you tried the next smaller cup, the Wick 4BFL? You might find the sound acceptable and the range/endurance easier. Bingo. That's your mouthpiece. Or you might not be happy with the sound and decide you need to just stick with the 4FL and keep practicing to develop the strength and endurance you need to make that piece work.

I can't tell you what your choice should be, but that's how I'd think through my options.
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Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2649
Location: Anacortes, WA

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:53 am Post subject:

Quote:

How can one account for the pain while playing the shallow Curry FL-M or Conn 7 CFL.?

Pressure. Why are you pressing harder?

Quote:

Also, I did some playing along with the rwcording using my FL, & my FL was pretty bright compared to his. On my FL-M I was noticeably brighter than the FL, & in person demonstrations for musician frends certainly confirmed that the FL was more flugelhorn sounding than the FLM.

I would say that he uses a bit of tension in his playing that makes his tone duller or darker. I can't remember. Have you recorded yourself with all of these combinations? If so, which did you like the best? Which has the best intonation? Those are my first two questions when I'm looking at evaluating a question of equipment.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

Last edited by Richard III on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total

Benge.nut
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Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 695

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:55 am Post subject:

I'd pick one horn and mouthpiece and try sticking with it for a while. Maybe there is too much analysis going on here?

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