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jazzfunk Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: Leather Specialities valve guard question |
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I'm about to order a valve guard for my Lawler flugelhorn.
Since there are no pictures of the flugelhorn guards on the site http://www.lscoguard.com/ and it is very hard to get an answer by email from them.
Does anyone know what the difference is between the "Special" and the "Deluxe" models for flugel?
Is it the same difference as for the trumpet guards (i.e. a wrap around the 3rd valve slide for the Deluxe)
Deluxe lsco
Special lsco
Or is it more like the ones from Zachary Music:
http://www.zacharymusic.com/Zachary_Music/GuardZFH900.htm
where the Deluxe version covers most of the 3rd valve slide and 1st valve slide. And the Special version wraps around the lead pipe going in to 1st valve and the bell pipe going out of the 3rd valve?
If anyone has a picture of a flugelhorn with an lsco guard (either Special or Deluxe) I would be very thankful.
"Special"
"Deluxe"
_________________ Callet Jazz (.470" bore)
Lawler FL1 gold plated
Yamaha YTR-734 (.460" bore)
Jupiter slide trumpet
SC1 (when I'm working on MSC)
Asymmetric 342 Lead (when I fall back to old chops)
Bach 1C, Weril 46W, Asymmetric 545 Opera, Denis Wick 4 FL |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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As you've seen, good luck getting a reply from Leather Specialties, I had the same experience.
If they have a return policy, you could probably order both, send one back, you would just be out the shipping cost.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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So, from my experience with Leather Specialties, the flugelhorn Basic model just wraps around the valves, with cutouts for the valve slides (does not extend past the valve block). The Deluxe model looks like the 2nd flugel picture you posted, with extra material that covers all the valve slides AND extends over the leadpipe/bell ferrule. I prefer the basic, as the deluxe ended up seeming like too much fuss after a while, and never really fit properly in the first place. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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They make a great product. Sorry to hear they don't have anyone addressing questions via email. Phone overseas may not be a viable solution, but how are they domestically of late? |
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jazzfunk Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your response lakejw (et al)! Do you have any picture to share?
What about the "Special"? (the in-between model)
Looking at the Zachary guards I linked to I'd prefer the "Special" model as it covers the exposed parts of the lead pipe and the bell pipe but leaves the slides in the open. And, I want the moisture barrier of the Leather Specialities product and the model specific fit for my Lawler flugel.
lakejw wrote: | So, from my experience with Leather Specialties, the flugelhorn Basic model just wraps around the valves, with cutouts for the valve slides (does not extend past the valve block). The Deluxe model looks like the 2nd flugel picture you posted, with extra material that covers all the valve slides AND extends over the leadpipe/bell ferrule. I prefer the basic, as the deluxe ended up seeming like too much fuss after a while, and never really fit properly in the first place. |
_________________ Callet Jazz (.470" bore)
Lawler FL1 gold plated
Yamaha YTR-734 (.460" bore)
Jupiter slide trumpet
SC1 (when I'm working on MSC)
Asymmetric 342 Lead (when I fall back to old chops)
Bach 1C, Weril 46W, Asymmetric 545 Opera, Denis Wick 4 FL |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a few of these years ago. They're still in a dusty corner of the practice room somewhere if I go hunting. Used them only briefly.They're too thick, make the horn feel weird, and dead, in the hand. Had one for a bach trumpet and one to fit a Kanstul 1525 flugel. Neither felt 'right' after the honeymoon period.
To each his own. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'd only use one if I had a raw brass horn (which I doubt I'd ever own) so my hands don't turn Incredible Hulk green and to try and prevent my horn from rotting away.
Otherwise, if I just wipe down my horns after use, the silver plate and lacquer never seems to be bothered by whatever I am oozing out on to my horn. |
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jazzfunk Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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I've had valve covers on my trumpets for ages and I like the feel of it. Especially on long rehearsals or gigs.
If it's not too much of a bother I'd really appreciate a picture of the guard on the flugel if it's a Leather Specialties guard.
RandyTX wrote: | I bought a few of these years ago. They're still in a dusty corner of the practice room somewhere if I go hunting. Used them only briefly.They're too thick, make the horn feel weird, and dead, in the hand. Had one for a bach trumpet and one to fit a Kanstul 1525 flugel. Neither felt 'right' after the honeymoon period.
To each his own. |
_________________ Callet Jazz (.470" bore)
Lawler FL1 gold plated
Yamaha YTR-734 (.460" bore)
Jupiter slide trumpet
SC1 (when I'm working on MSC)
Asymmetric 342 Lead (when I fall back to old chops)
Bach 1C, Weril 46W, Asymmetric 545 Opera, Denis Wick 4 FL |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: |
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jazzfunk wrote: | I've had valve covers on my trumpets for ages and I like the feel of it. Especially on long rehearsals or gigs.
If it's not too much of a bother I'd really appreciate a picture of the guard on the flugel if it's a Leather Specialties guard.
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It looks pretty much exactly like the flugel pic posted earlier. Of course, with the kanstul flugel, the wrap is such that you don't touch the cover in very many places anyway other than the back side of the valve block. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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jazzfunk Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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First or second flugel picture? They are two different guard models (first is "Special" and second is "Deluxe")
RandyTX wrote: |
It looks pretty much exactly like the flugel pic posted earlier. |
_________________ Callet Jazz (.470" bore)
Lawler FL1 gold plated
Yamaha YTR-734 (.460" bore)
Jupiter slide trumpet
SC1 (when I'm working on MSC)
Asymmetric 342 Lead (when I fall back to old chops)
Bach 1C, Weril 46W, Asymmetric 545 Opera, Denis Wick 4 FL |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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RandyTX wrote: | I bought a few of these years ago. They're still in a dusty corner of the practice room somewhere if I go hunting. Used them only briefly.They're too thick, make the horn feel weird, and dead, in the hand. Had one for a bach trumpet and one to fit a Kanstul 1525 flugel. Neither felt 'right' after the honeymoon period.
To each his own. |
I agree...which of course does not mean the OP
would or should.
About six months ago, I decided to put a guard I had (it was a Leather Specialties) back on my Benge, for a gig. In my opinion, there was a very noticeable difference in how the horn played with it on, and not in a good way. It felt somewhat dead, less responsive and a bit stiff, I took it off, noticeable difference.
That was it for me with valve guards.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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BoscoBabcock New Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I've used them on and off for years. They do deaden some horns, but if you're looking for a valve guard they're the best. [/quote] |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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I also find some horns respond negatively, while others don't. Seems the lighter horns don't like it, but I'm not sure it's that simple |
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jazzfunk Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 61 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Well, it seems that Facebook Messenger is the best way to get answers from Leather Specialties. I even got a couple of pictures from them showing the Deluxe guard on a flugelhorn and it is more or less identical to the "Special" model from Zachary.
So I ordered a Deluxe guard in black for my Lawler FL1. _________________ Callet Jazz (.470" bore)
Lawler FL1 gold plated
Yamaha YTR-734 (.460" bore)
Jupiter slide trumpet
SC1 (when I'm working on MSC)
Asymmetric 342 Lead (when I fall back to old chops)
Bach 1C, Weril 46W, Asymmetric 545 Opera, Denis Wick 4 FL |
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