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Blueblue Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Posts: 104 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:39 am Post subject: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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Anyone have both the 11F4 and 14F4,
or can you tell something about one of them?
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2334 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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simple answer = the 14 series is a larger diameter rim.
Yamaha 11 series approximately equal to Bach 7
Yamaha 14 series approximately equal to Bach 3 _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Blueblue Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Posts: 104 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Can you agree the 11F4 is a good starters Flugel mouthpiece?
Yamaha site:
Flugelhorn 11F4
16.46
semi-flat/
3.80 standard
Medium inner rim diameter and unique "U" cup for extra endurance. Excellent attack.
Easy for beginners. |
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bwoodard Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 623 Location: Mich.
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely! I was using the MP on my ACB Doubler Flugel and it worked great. I'm selling that horn now so I don't use it any longer. _________________ Veteran comebacker!
Bob
2015 Harrelson Summit 4/10
2014 Getzen 4895 Flugelhorn
2014 Getzen 3850
2010 Callet Sima Bb
2010 Callet Sima C
73 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
48 Conn 80A Victor Cornet |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Yamaha "4" rim is medium wide fairly flat with just enough inner edge to give most folks enough hold. Compares favorably to the shape and feel of a Bach 3C. This is a pretty good fit for a lot of folks and it's a very popular rim shape. Though there are some who need rounder rims or sharper bites who won't excel on this rim.
The size 11 is about the same size as a Bach 7C though the rim shape and bite are more similar to the Bach 3C.
I play a smaller vintage Bach 3C rim and use the Yamaha 14F4 on my flugel and the 11C4 on my picc (though I'm looking for a cornet shank 11B4). Transitioning between them is never a problem for me. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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bassguy Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2016 Posts: 336
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Blueblue wrote: | Can you agree the 11F4 is a good starters Flugel mouthpiece?
Yamaha site:
Flugelhorn 11F4
16.46
semi-flat/
3.80 standard
Medium inner rim diameter and unique "U" cup for extra endurance. Excellent attack.
Easy for beginners. |
I saw a YouTube video of a guy (Michael Grasso?) demonstrating a Getzen Eterna, Jupiter 846 & Kanstul 1523 & I would say that the sound (using the 14F4 is surprising dark (on all flugelhorns).... darker than my Curry FLM. But I Yamaha does have a wide throat @ 4.3mm, and that contributes to dark timbre, whereas the Curry is only 3.99mm. Is the 14 Yamsha's shallow as the Curry FL-M?
Last edited by bassguy on Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:06 am Post subject: |
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I had a 11F4, changed to a Warburton, then to a Wick 4FL and then to a 14F4. Love the Yammies but after the Wick 4 FL the 14F4 was very weird to play. The first two days I thought that it was a complete failure. I could not play on it. But after a few days everything opened up, it is a great flugelpiece with a really jazzy sound. At least for me. |
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McVouty Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:42 am Post subject: |
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I have the Yamaha 14F4 as well a a Curry 3FL., a Warburton 4FL and a Bach 3CFL. They are all very similar size with the Bach having the roundest rim and the Warburton the flattest. I find myself favouring the Curry and the Yamaha most of the time - the Bach is a bit too 'trumpet-like' for me and the Warburton is probably the fluffiest sound - closest to the British brass band sound. The Yamaha is almost identical to the curry, but maybe a tad smaller diameter and a bit tighter blow.
The Yamahas are good, inexpensive mouthpieces - the only thing to watch is the shank size. The Yamahas wont fit a flugel with the narrow Bach taper properly. If you have a Yamaha or most non-Bach American made flugels you should be OK.
Hope that helps! |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:20 am Post subject: |
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11F4 is surprisingly small rim size. People are comparing it to Bach 7, and while I'm sure Bach has made some that small and labeled it '7' I have never seen one that small.
Either size, 11 or 14, is a nice mpc |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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Blueblue wrote: | Anyone have both the 11F4 and 14F4,
or can you tell something about one of them?
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I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb. I have used the 14B4 but currently use the 11B4 on picc.
I find the Yamaha flugel pieces very reasonable sounding and easy to play.
For a short time I had a Reeves 42FE and decided it sounded and played too similar to the Yamaha to justify keeping it. No knock on Reeves pieces, in fact I'm looking forward to try his HF cup. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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bassguy Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2016 Posts: 336
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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McVouty wrote: | I have the Yamaha 14F4 as well a a Curry 3FL., a Warburton 4FL and a Bach 3CFL. They are all very similar size with the Bach having the roundest rim and the Warburton the flattest. I find myself favouring the Curry and the Yamaha most of the time - the Bach is a bit too 'trumpet-like' for me and the Warburton is probably the fluffiest sound - closest to the British brass band sound. The Yamaha is almost identical to the curry, but maybe a tad smaller diameter and a bit tighter blow.
The Yamahas are good, inexpensive mouthpieces - the only thing to watch is the shank size. The Yamahas wont fit a flugel with the narrow Bach taper properly. If you have a Yamaha or most non-Bach American made flugels you should be OK.
Hope that helps! |
You have the Curry FL, so I am very curious: is the 14F4 a little shallower, or the same depth as the Curry FL? |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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cheiden wrote: |
I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb. |
I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Contrarian view on Yamaha flugel pieces here. They are by far my least favorite. I find them much less responsive and the sound is just dull and unexciting. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Contrarian view on Yamaha flugel pieces here. They are by far my least favorite. I find them much less responsive and the sound is just dull and unexciting. |
I have the 14F4. Seemed fine.
I later got a ACB flugel piece and a ACB FX mouthpieces - flugel cup for trumpet, but can apparently be used AS a flugel pieces (silly me, I played it strictly as a flugel piece for months). Putting those in my flugel resulted in "Ahhh, yeah. Nice!" Bonus - they played easier as well.
It's worth it to at least try something else to see. You never know until you try... _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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delano wrote: | cheiden wrote: |
I find the Yamaha pieces to be essentially identical apart from the rim size. I play the 14F4 on flugel and have used the 14B4 on the Bb. |
I am not sure because I sold my Yamaha 11F4 years ago but cf the specs that piece should have some U-shaped cup. And I am very sure that my 14F4 has a real V cup. |
Hi delano
Yes, it does look like the 11F4 and 14F4 have different cup shapes.
i.e.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/mouthpieces/brass/flugelforns_series/?mode=series#tab=PD5115635
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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I stand corrected. Thanks for the education. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 11F4 or 14F4 |
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cheiden wrote: |
Hi cheiden
I stand corrected. Thanks for the education.
You are very welcome, but I was only quoting from the Yamaha website in agreement with Delano.
Take care
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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