How do I comeback from this

[mattneedshelp911]

Okay, this has been a long and taxing journey, emotionally and physically...

Here's my story.

I started trumpet the summer before 8th grade and developed an embouchure with extremely rolled out and stacked lips, resulting in a farty sound that needed HUGE amounts of pressure and never allowed me to even bop a high C.

2 years later, going into sophomore year, and after probably 6 months of extensive trumpet herald and YouTube research, I one day free buzzed a high G with a much better embouchure and was very happy that all of a sudden I could play high C's every day as well as play quietly and with a 20th of the pressure.

At the end of the year I was looking into drum corps going to camps and realized I had absolutely no power at all, only flexibility. Although my embouchure was very rolled in and stretched out, I somehow managed to change it into a puckered maggio/Maynard kinda position around April that year. I lost a lot of the ease of playing I had, but I could play way louder and I could lip trill for the first time, so I took that to drum corps.

That's where I [messed] up.

Immediately my lips got swollen and I could hardly play anything I was able to at home. I went an entire summer trying to get by in drum corps with swollen, unresponsive lips. A lot of depression and fury resulted.

I got back and took 3 days off before taking a lesson with my dc vet band director to rehab my face. My tone pretty quickly after that day started to get very round and buttery smooth and I got my range back, re-establishing my low range and reaching up to high D's. I continued to get more flexible and relaxed as well as less puckered throughout marching season, making weekly progress.

Then I [messed] up again!

The end of marching season had several back to back performances that drove me into the ground. I had a sharp ridge on my vermilion border all season that completely went away (my lips physically changed) and I just lost everything I had been working on. I''ve yet to reobtain that rich buttery tone and range.

I [messed] myself up at every concert and taxing rehearsal after that from November to almost May now and I can barely play anything other than the 1st iron's exercise. This whole semester has been a lot of playing down the octave and resting and icing and more backtracking to the point I'm at now, where I can't play outside of the staff and get mouthpiece rings from just touching the horn to my lips.

I just want to know if it's likely I'll be able to play well after a summer on my own outside of band. The only cut I've gotten is a pretty small but noticeable tear on my bottom lip from dryness and cracking (I'm on accutane as of February). My lips have been swollen for a very long time and I want to know what kind of damage I've done and maybe advice on things to practice or if I should I even bother practicing over the summer. Anything. I love the sound of a skilled trumpet player so much and wouldn't be posting this if I wanted to give up.

Edited by Moderators. Profanity, including disguised, is not allowed on the TH. Be advised, if you do it again your TH privileges will be revoked ASAP.

[1jazzyalex]

You probably need to go to a teacher who's outside of your band program and won't try to over-push you.

Claude Gorden, I believe, stressed not thinking about "the lip" too much just put the horn on your face and play. No rolling in, rolling out, non'a that nonsense.

Mostly it's about relaxing and flowing air.

If you're playing outdoors in the sun and wind, heck, that can get hard on lips without even bringing trumpet into the picture. Two things that help me are Blistex in the tube, and Blistex Deep Renewal which is a stick like chapstick, and well, frankly, it's for ladies so it comes in a wonderful pearl colored tube ... you could always put some camouflage tape on it. I keep a tube of that by my bedside and try to always put some on my lips before going to sleep. The Blistex in the tube is good to put just a teeny bit on the lips during the day.

There are some really knowledgeable people on here and getting their help and support is well worth the "price" of not cussing etc - I know it's frustrating at times, but the folks here are good as gold and really want to help people.
_________________
Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A

[Brad361]

Reinforcing the above statements:
You need to be aware that TH is not like many places on the internet, in that there are rules and protocol here that are more strict than in some other places. I believe they are in place for good reason, they keep the atmosphere here more professional and age-appropriate than many other websites.

That being said (and some of the people here who have seen comments I've made in the past may roll their eyes a bit), you need a qualified private teacher.....badly. Clearly you have problems that need to be sorted out, and you can get some good advice here, but evaluating and helping you on line has limitations.

It sounds like you are serious about your playing, your problems CAN be addressed and corrected. And as much as I like drum corps, it's an activity that is about competing and winning, it's not always about learning, or what is best for an individual with regards to the problems you describe. I'm a former drum corps instructor/arranger, so I do have at least some frame of reference for making those statements.

Don't give up, consider taking a break from drum corps or other performance areas that might tempt you to ignore your need to make changes with regards to proper technique , find a teacher.

Best of luck!!

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[Benge.nut]

I'm only going to address the cuts on your chops.

Playing a lot is a good thing. Playing a lot the wrong way OR WITH THE WRONG MOUTHPIECE is a bad thing.

As I don't know you, or haven't heard or watched you play I nor anybody else here on the TH can make any real informed opinions or suggestions.

But....

Mouthpieces: In my teens I was playing a lot the wrong way. Way too much air, and too much pressure. And I used to get cuts (which are now scars). Besides overblowing and using too much pressure, my mouthpiece choices were not helping.

Some Bach mouthpieces have super sharp inside bites, that if you are underdeveloped and using too much pressure CAN AND DO cause cuts. And if you don't let them heal, will turn to scars. Another mouthpiece was a Jet-tone I was using. Not all Bach or Jet-Tones have super sharp bites, but many do.

Also I was playing mouthpieces that were entirely too large for me, and I fatigued way faster because of bad advice from teachers of playing on rims close to 3C and 1C size.

Best move I ever made was getting away from huge hardware, and rims with sharp inside bites.

Maybe discuss this with your teacher.

[dstdenis]

Yes, this can probably be fixed. No need to panic. Yes, you should keep practicing. However, it should be easy practice, sort of like an injured athlete on a rehabilitation program.

I think you should reconsider your goal of playing with lots of power as a top priority. This might be (probably is) what got you into trouble. The trumpet is capable of playing with a noble, majestic, thrilling sound without shredding one's embouchure. You should modify your approach and develop your skills so you can play with a variety of sounds and styles without beating up your chops.

I second the advice to get help from the best trumpet teacher you can find. Sure, you could try to fix it yourself, and you might have some success, but you would do much better by having an expert listen to and watch you play and put you squarely on a path toward a healthy, effective playing approach.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[razeontherock]

Lots of great advice here. The only thing missing is in the meantime, lots of soft playing from the Clarke book! Easy range, pure tone as quietly as you can, put the horn down and rest while the chops still feel good. Pick it back up when the tingling goes away.

Even one note played well brings you closer to your goal, and then easily turns into longer and longer phrases, until you're better than ever. Take it slow and easy, with a teacher. Consider Skype, to be able to pick the best.

[jscahoy]

You'll be fine, but I think you should start by taking a few days off. Nothing good ever happens on swollen chops, and you've beaten yours up without mercy.

[TKSop]

It sounds like (ie: please correct me if I'm wrong) you're describing multiple embouchure switches?

This is definitely not something to do regularly (if at all), and definitely not something to do without informed guidance and without a very good reason for doing so.


The recommendations so far make sense - definitely do find a teacher and certainly consider backing off from pressure situations until you find your feet.

[Billy B]

Where is Round Rock?
_________________
Bill Bergren

[Craig Swartz]

I'm surprised the drum corps caused you injury- usually DCI staff are good at emphasizing fundamentals, especially proper breathing, the lack of which is usually the primary factor behind swollen chops, embouchure "problems" and the like. Perhaps your corps doesn't have a good line coach or you aren't listening.

Getting back on track, I second (third, fourth?) the advice to play softly and use your breath to make sounds not "buzzing" your lips nor the pinky octave key method. As has also been stated previously, getting some real professional help, one-on-one is just about always better than lying around here trying to glean tips and tricks. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. Good luck.

[cheiden]

What I know of drum corp is that it can be brutal. My wife used to do it and I've seen a good bit. My teacher told me about innumerable players who got hurt that he had to rehabilitate. So you're not alone by a long shot.

Some folks have the skill, stamina, and good sense to avoid getting hurt, but some don't (I don't). If you're of a personality (like me) who too easily gets hurt trying to be a hero then you might really need to take a step back. Without a significant change in approach, I suspect that you will always fall back into old destructive habits. I'd take time off enough so you can rebuild with a good non-dc coach. Then you can decide if and when you can jump back into such a high-intensity endeavor.

I greatly respect DC players and would never have been so bold to attempt it myself.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Benge.nut]

There is nothing wrong with playing in marching band or DCI corp bands.

There is a difference between playing loud, and playing brash while overblowing and using too much pressure etc.

Especially when you are playing with a dozen or more trumpets, there is no need to overdo it.

I played in a Senior DCI group when I was in college. I loved it!! Tons of playing, good buds, and lots of beer drinking!!

I had to learn the hard way not to overdo it, and not to worry about being the loudest....because it just didn't matter with all those other guys.

But don't listen to people who say DCI or marching band is a detriment to your growth or playing. Just take it easy! And have fun!

[John Mohan]

Read my story (from an article I wrote back in 1999), and if you want my help it is available.

How I Became a Student of Claude Gordon

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student

[trickg]

[chuck in ny]

there are a lot of fine points to an embouchure. find someone that specializes in chops and get sorted out.

[RandyTX]

[1jazzyalex]

[googanelli]

I'm a former DCI kid who still hacks around on bugles and trumpets 20 years later. Yes, you will get through this. I struggled with my face and teachers because I was so focused on what my lips were or were not doing. I took a few years off. I played low brass for a season. I learned a lot. Simply put, your lips don't do crap. It's all about air, tongue, and finding how to utilize and balance both of those two things. I was used to playing with an "ah" mouth shape and thought I could muscle my way into the upper register with a wide open palate. It took me years to figure out that I had to learn to be efficient with air rather than throwing air at the problem.

Relax. Find joy in playing. The chops WILL come.

Joe
_________________
I play the same chords over and over.....from a train.

[furcifer]

You're overdoing something on the field work. Probably too much pressure, possibly blowing too hard - and likely doing it too often. First of all, don't go out there and play maxed out. You want to be at about 80% even on the loudest stuff. Don't go 100% except maybe on the last three bars of the gig, LOL - and not even then if you've got another show within 48hrs. You need about a DAY off - maybe more - between hard playing sessions. It's just like circuit training for athletes. You tear down muscles by working out, and you actually build muscle when you are resting in between workouts.
Frequency and length of playing time can increase over time, but too much too soon is gonna cause swelling and inflammation. An anti-inflammatory of some sort will help - again, just like an athlete with tennis elbow.

I've done drum corps, jr. and sr. - (I've been playing Lead Sop in an All-Age corps for over a year now, since laying off for 25+ years) and before that I played for about 6 to 8 hours a day 6 days a week for about 5 years in college; over half of that was jazz bands and marching band, so *most* of the playing I've always done does not involve sitting in a chair.

When I started my comeback, I had to take it real easy and slowly work back up to playing with power and then getting back the lead chops above the staff. Short practice sessions more often is better than ONE long practice session per day. Again, only work range&power every OTHER day, or less. Focus on the SOUND you want - not "loud", but BIG.

If you haven't worked with a good private teacher yet, well, it should be needless to say that you're OVERDUE. Studying with a private teacher is a HUGE aspect of a successful player's experience.

I'm curious what mouthpiece you're using for the field? There are indeed choices that can make things a lot easier and even limit the amount of pressure and resulting swelling you experience.
_________________
Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919

[mattneedshelp911]

Ok, a couple of things

Yes, Round rock is in Texas

About accutane, I use blistex DCT constantly, but I still have to wipe it off to play and that's when I dry out.

As far as private instruction, I've had a pretty decent teacher all school year. He was one of the main reasons why I recovered from drum corps so well during marching band. However, I had to stop taking lessons with him recently because this whole semester has been a downward spiral despite his aid. I feel that his advice and my careful practice are outweighed by the stuff I play the other 6 days and 23 hours of the week.
Also, my head band director and I have had several conversations about the emotional struggles tied with my chops and he is strongly advising/forcing me to attend all concerts, sectionals, extended rehearsals etc. He doesn't want me to drift away from my peers to save face, so I guess I'm going to have to sit through performances patiently until June 1, because I'm in the graduation band.

I'll start back up lessons either a week or more into summer, possibly with a new teacher who's older and more knowledgeable with these problems than my old teacher, since my recovery was so speedy after drum corps. I wonder if all of the excess muscle gained from being so tense all summer helped me recover lol.

Thank you guys for all of the comments! I wasn't expecting this many!
_________________
Only perfect practice makes perfect

My practice is far from perfect