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Fake Slurring



 
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JazzMetal
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Fake Slurring Reply with quote

So my teacher tried to articulate this idea to me recently, but he's still working out how he can effectively teach it. The idea is that to avoid losing the 'gas' or endurance that some slurs can take out of a player, the player should fake the slur instead of actually slurring. The way I understand it is he crescendos like you would a normal slur, but does a superficial tongue to get the next pitch instead of using the lips. Do you employ this technique? How would you teach it?
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Fake Slurring Reply with quote

JazzMetal wrote:
So my teacher tried to articulate this idea to me recently, but he's still working out how he can effectively teach it. The idea is that to avoid losing the 'gas' or endurance that some slurs can take out of a player, the player should fake the slur instead of actually slurring. The way I understand it is he crescendos like you would a normal slur, but does a superficial tongue to get the next pitch instead of using the lips. Do you employ this technique? How would you teach it?

Depending on context it's not hard to imagine a soft tongue being employed that wouldn't be very easily differentiated from a slur.


And FWIW, players I know, particularly the one who study the Stamp method sometimes sound like they're tonguing even when they aren't. This is because they are using a particularly effective amount of tongue level that makes the partials pop.

I'm a little perplexed by your implication that slurs are by definition accompanied by a crescendo, cause they're almost certainly not. If you have to blow harder to execute a slur then you're approaching them wrong.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Fake Slurring Reply with quote

JazzMetal wrote:
So my teacher tried to articulate this idea to me recently, but he's still working out how he can effectively teach it. The idea is that to avoid losing the 'gas' or endurance that some slurs can take out of a player, the player should fake the slur instead of actually slurring. The way I understand it is he crescendos like you would a normal slur, but does a superficial tongue to get the next pitch instead of using the lips. Do you employ this technique? How would you teach it?

That's essentially interval training. It can be done with slurs, normal articulation, or with very soft articulation to barely separate the notes, what Franquin called "détachés" (slurred detachment). The Franquin method has lots of exercises using all three approaches: slurs, detached slurs and articulated intervals. It's all good stuff.
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Benge.nut
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like he is describing using a different oral cavity and tongue shape for ascending and decending slur patterns.

For instance when slurring up use an "EE" shape inside your mouth, and an "AH" shape for slurring down.

And I suppose he's saying use a bit more air with the tongue shape change to ascend....not necessarily "crescendo" in sound volume, but just should a bit more air instead of using chop movement to slur up

That's my take on what your describing you've understood from your teacher. Aaaaaand I could be wrong.
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTM has helped me with the fake slur for years. just listen to trombone players. they do it all day because they don't have a choice.....
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Fake Slurring Reply with quote

JazzMetal wrote:
So my teacher tried to articulate this idea to me recently, but he's still working out how he can effectively teach it. The idea is that to avoid losing the 'gas' or endurance that some slurs can take out of a player, the player should fake the slur instead of actually slurring. The way I understand it is he crescendos like you would a normal slur, but does a superficial tongue to get the next pitch instead of using the lips. Do you employ this technique? How would you teach it?

Ah... you're saying your teacher is trying to work out how to teach you to fake slurs, because? Huh?

How about taking a different approach? That wold be, lightly articulate the slur if you CAN'T slur it, in the ensemble, on the job, etc. Then, in your practice room PRACTICE the slur / luring, so you can do it.

There is clearly something not correct in the way you are blowing / have chops set if you are having this trouble. Putting your energies into faking it, seems somewhat counterintuitive.

cheers

Andy
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Dave CCM/SSO
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are "fake slurs" used from time to time in performance situations? I'm sure. I don't think that this should be the goal, however.

It's a good idea to actually develop the technique of slurring correctly. There are no short cuts if you want to be a great player. Take the time to practice slurs with a metronome at a quiet dynamic. If the larger slurs are not working, it's possible that your tongue is too far back in your mouth. I believe that the tongue arch needs to happen at the front of your mouth to facilitate slurs most efficiently.

Be patient and do it right!

Happy Trumpeting!

Dave
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing for 48 years now ( ) and this is the first time I've heard of "fake slurs". What Ron mentioned about trombone players makes sense - I didn't know they did such a thing.

Personally, I just practiced tons of flexibility studies and interval studies (slurring them as well as tonguing them) to get to the point where I could slur cleanly and efficiently between large intervals, skipping the partials in between.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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