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Protec iPac double trumpet case



 
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Protec iPac double trumpet case Reply with quote

Hi

I am wondering whether the tall valve block and wide wrap of my Yamaha Xeno short model cornet, will fit in this case, in the position shown:

http://www.protecstyle.com/product-p/ip301d.htm

Many Thanks

Lou
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- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

After telephoning John Packer Ltd in the UK, and discussing this with them, I have ordered the following case:

http://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/JP-Pro-Double-Trumpet-Case.html

As the above link shows, this case is actually the supplied case with the JP371SW Bb Cornet.

Additionally, see the middle paragraph under the cornet picture on the following link:

http://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/xcms_entry.php?xcmsentryid=39

Anyway, John Packer Ltd kindly tried a Yamaha Neo cornet (the gentleman I spoke to also plays a Xeno cornet, and agreed that the wraps of the Xeno and Neo cornets are very similar) and Yamaha Xeno II trumpet in this case, and they comfortably fit with no pressure on the cornet bell.

I therefore decided to order one.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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trickg
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this thread - I'm in the market for a double case too, and I've got a pretty specific set of criteria for what it is I think I want.
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NMex
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Patrick,
I may have what you're looking for. I have an older Protec double case just sitting in the closet. Let me dig it out and send photos tonight. I'd be glad to let it go.
Regards,
Mario
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Thanks for this thread -

Hi trickg

You are very welcome.


I'm in the market for a double case too, and I've got a pretty specific set of criteria for what it is I think I want.

I've just re-read the opening post of your thread. I'm very sorry, but I don't think that I have any suggestions other than what has been suggested so far.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Hi

After telephoning John Packer Ltd in the UK, and discussing this with them, I have ordered the following case:

http://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/JP-Pro-Double-Trumpet-Case.html

As the above link shows, this case is actually the supplied case with the JP371SW Bb Cornet.

Additionally, see the middle paragraph under the cornet picture on the following link:

http://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/xcms_entry.php?xcmsentryid=39

Anyway, John Packer Ltd kindly tried a Yamaha Neo cornet (the gentleman I spoke to also plays a Xeno cornet, and agreed that the wraps of the Xeno and Neo cornets are very similar) and Yamaha Xeno II trumpet in this case, and they comfortably fit with no pressure on the cornet bell.

I therefore decided to order one.

All the best

Lou


Hi

My new case came today, and there is good and bad.

The best thing is that it will easily fit both my trumpet and cornet, and is not very big. It is taller and narrower than my Yamaha double back pack case, so no bigger overall. It is also nicely made and smart looking. In addition to the removable main divider which goes between the two instruments, there are quite a few padded blocks with velcro, and a shaped divider, which looks like it could go behind the bell tail of a cornet, although I've used the padded blocks instead.

There are feet on both the end and bottom of the case, so that it can be put down horizontally or stood up vertically. There is correspondingly a handle on the end and side.

Now the bad. I mention that it is taller and narrower than my Yamaha double case. I previously mentioned on either this or another thread, that what I dislike about the large pocket on my Yamaha double case is that it has curved sides, meaning that only the very middle is wide enough for a foolscap cardboard folder. You can however at least put single sheets of A4 music in this pocket.

The pocket on my new case is not as wide as a sheet of A4 paper (although it is a lot taller). This pocket therefore simply cannot hold sheet music. It also has no internal compartments. This pocket will hold a small metal fold-up music stand.

Additionally, the back pack straps are fully functional but very odd. I expected the style of back pack straps that are stitched at the top and unclip at the bottom, to zip neatly away behind a panel. No, there is no panel to hide away the back pack straps, probably because this case doesn't come with the alternative choice of a detachable shoulder strap (which I found very surprising), so you'd probably want to use the back pack straps. There are two separate back pack straps. They have to be secured on rings at the top and bottom of the case. There are no clips on the shoulder straps, and it is a case of having to put the narrower end strap on each shoulder strap through a ring on the case and back through a buckle on the shoulder strap. Each end is different, and to be honest, since there are no instructions, I have no idea whether I have buckled them up correctly. They vaguely look like the photos on the website, and seem to function ok, so will do.

Edit: I had a think about this and a good look at the back pack straps, and have worked out how they go. They were wrong last time, but I'm pretty sure that I have them right now.

There are also no instructions or suggestions regarding how to configure the case with the velcro padded blocks or smaller curved divider.

I personally don't like the side handle style comprising of two single handles which are held together by a velcro sleeve, because they are either side of the main zip, but maybe that is me. I'd prefer a fixed handle on one side of the Zip, and a flap with a press fastener going over the zip, as an extra measure of security.

There is no ring to hold a clip on mute bag.

My conclusion is that the case is well made, looks nice, securely holds my trumpet and cornet, and is surprisingly small. I don't think it is however particularly well designed with regards to the back pack straps, lack of an alternative detachable shoulder strap, lack of a ring to attach a mute bag, and particularly the size of the pocket.

I would rather the case was wide enough to hold a large music folder.

If I was designing it, I would make the case wider, possibly by adding a full length mute space at the front (or by making it a triple, which I suppose is a bit controversial, since it would no longer be a double case), make the pocket wide enough + expandable, in order to hold a large music folder, would add the rings to hold a supplied detachable shoulder strap, would add a ring for a mute bag, and would alter the style of the back pack straps, so that they are fixed at the top, simply clip to rings at the bottom, and can be stored behind a panel.

Anyway, my view is mixed. The case will do the job, but I'll have to continue carrying a separate accessory bag. Basically I see it as replacing one single trumpet case and one single cornet case, with one double trumpet/cornet case, with no other change to how I carry my accessories.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim


Last edited by Louise Finch on Thu May 18, 2017 7:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry the case wasn't all you'd hoped it would be, Lou. Deficient design of the features of cases is one of my pet peeves. The Jakob Winter cornet case I bought a couple years ago was one of the few pleasant surprises I've had with buying cases.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Sorry the case wasn't all you'd hoped it would be, Lou.

Hi Dale

Thank you very much.


Deficient design of the features of cases is one of my pet peeves.

Yes, and mine.

The Jakob Winter cornet case I bought a couple years ago was one of the few pleasant surprises I've had with buying cases.

This is the one like the Besson Sovereign case, but in black with silver hardwear? If so, nice case.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
...This is the one like the Besson Sovereign case, but in black with silver hardwear? If so, nice case.


Yes, that's the one - I believe they make the cases for Besson. Room for various mutes, a small trumpet stand, mouthpieces, valve oil, etc. and an inside compartment that most sheet music will fit into.

I bought it to replace that stupid Bach 184 case that's about an inch too small to fit a cup mute in.
_________________
Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
...This is the one like the Besson Sovereign case, but in black with silver hardwear? If so, nice case.


Yes, that's the one - I believe they make the cases for Besson. Room for various mutes, a small trumpet stand, mouthpieces, valve oil, etc. and an inside compartment that most sheet music will fit into.

I bought it to replace that stupid Bach 184 case that's about an inch too small to fit a cup mute in.


Hi Dale

Thank you very much for confirming this.

Yes, it is annoying that the mute space of the Bach 184 case is not large enough for a cup mute. And of course, there is no sheet music compartment in the Bach 184 case.

My main requirement was a double case that would hold a trumpet and the taller valve block/wider wrap of my Yamaha Xeno cornet, and the John Packer one meet this.

Take care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I've never had a case that could fit sheet music in it, properly.

Even my old ProTec triple case (pre iPac version) had a front pocket that was smaller than standard orchestra/band folder. I haven't carried music in a case since elementary school when my book was occasionally folded up in my cornet case. My various double cases (Yamaha, old ProTec) don't even come close to fitting music. My triple could fit music (but not a folder, as I said), but I don't recall ever doing so.

The new iPac triple and quad cases look like they could carry music, which I guess might be nice. I'm not sure I've ever seen a double case that's got room for music without some sort of external thing. Looking for a double case that is compact AND can fit a cornet AND can have room for music might be a fool's errand. I'm not sure it exists. If you want room for two horns and mutes and maybe music, forget the double and get a triple and use the extra space for mutes and accessories (or have less stuff ).
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
I guess I've never had a case that could fit sheet music in it, properly.


I'm not entirely sure what 'properly' means, but I have very few that you can put music in, other than curling it up and dropping it in a slot for mutes and such (like the front compartment of an old Bach trumpet case).

I do have a 'music folder attachment' (probably has some weird name I can't remember?) for my Coyote 2.5. It's large enough to stuff an Arban book into, but I've never used it. The way it attaches to the case sort of blocks the handle/zipper for easy opening and closing of the case, so... it doesn't get used.

The Protec triple 'gig bag' (not case, not very protective) has a zipper slot on the outside that you could slide a folder into, but it would not hold it there securely, because about the top third or more would be sticking out in the open. Of course, if you're willing to give up one of the three slots, you might be able to squeeze a music folder inside also.

There is a combo trumpet/flugel case from Protec (hard-sided) that does have a large rectangular zippered pocket on the outside. Some music folders will fit in their easily. I know standard paper sizes in the UK are a little different, and folders perhaps as well, so I'm not 100% sure that the one Louise has in mind would fit. That said, most cornets I've seen will not fit in the front 'trumpet' slot because of the foam molded pads in the bottom which are made for a conventional trumpet to bell offset.

So, all that said, there's one other thing that would keep me from putting music inside a case most of the time. I routinely play in multiple groups/bands, and on any given day I might be headed to a different one, so I want to be able to see (quickly) that I have the right music with me before I drive somewhere and discover I have the wrong folder.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The iPac triple case I have has a zippered pocket on the outside that easily accommodates a full-size music folder full of music. As previously stated, a double case isn't gong to be large enough for a pocket that size.

The compartment in the Jakob Winter case was handy for brass band, because I could carry all my music for the current concert in it in a manila folder, as well as having room in the case for all the mutes I would need. Just pick up the case and head out the door.




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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:


Hi Crazy Finn

I guess I've never had a case that could fit sheet music in it, properly.

Thanks. I have a few, but they don't fit my needs for other reasons.

Even my old ProTec triple case (pre iPac version) had a front pocket that was smaller than standard orchestra/band folder. I haven't carried music in a case since elementary school when my book was occasionally folded up in my cornet case. My various double cases (Yamaha, old ProTec) don't even come close to fitting music. My triple could fit music (but not a folder, as I said), but I don't recall ever doing so.

I understand, thanks. My Protec extreme single case holds a small foolscap size cardboard folder of the kind as shown below, in the bell trumpet stand, fold up music stand, bottle of water and set of mutes, but it is of course not a double.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/IBUAAOSwNSxU4d8V/s-l300.jpg

http://media.musiciansfriend.com/is/image/MMGS7/Extreme-PRO-PAC-Trumpet-Case-Turquoise/541015000060000-00-290x290.jpg


The new iPac triple and quad cases look like they could carry music, which I guess might be nice. I'm not sure I've ever seen a double case that's got room for music without some sort of external thing. Looking for a double case that is compact AND can fit a cornet AND can have room for music might be a fool's errand. I'm not sure it exists. If you want room for two horns and mutes and maybe music, forget the double and get a triple and use the extra space for mutes and accessories (or have less stuff ).

I understand, thanks.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:


Hi RandyTX

Crazy Finn wrote:
I guess I've never had a case that could fit sheet music in it, properly.


I'm not entirely sure what 'properly' means, but I have very few that you can put music in, other than curling it up and dropping it in a slot for mutes and such (like the front compartment of an old Bach trumpet case).

I do have a 'music folder attachment' (probably has some weird name I can't remember?) for my Coyote 2.5. It's large enough to stuff an Arban book into, but I've never used it. The way it attaches to the case sort of blocks the handle/zipper for easy opening and closing of the case, so... it doesn't get used.

The Protec triple 'gig bag' (not case, not very protective) has a zipper slot on the outside that you could slide a folder into, but it would not hold it there securely, because about the top third or more would be sticking out in the open. Of course, if you're willing to give up one of the three slots, you might be able to squeeze a music folder inside also.

There is a combo trumpet/flugel case from Protec (hard-sided) that does have a large rectangular zippered pocket on the outside. Some music folders will fit in their easily.

Thanks very much for all of the above.

I know standard paper sizes in the UK are a little different, and folders perhaps as well, so I'm not 100% sure that the one Louise has in mind would fit.

The standard paper size in the UK is A4. My brass band folder is a flexible four ring ring binder, that will stay open on a stand. I keep my music in it in poly pockets.

i.e. http://image.made-in-china.com/45f3j00qtAECwYaqRug/A4-11-Holes-Clear-Plastic-PVC-Sheet-Protectors-with-Special-Cover-for-Ring-Binder.jpg

Both my orchestras use cardboard foolscap folders as shown on my post above.


That said, most cornets I've seen will not fit in the front 'trumpet' slot because of the foam molded pads in the bottom which are made for a conventional trumpet to bell offset.

Yes, I agree. The advantage of the case which I have chosen is that it will hold a cornet in both the front and back slot, so is either a double trumpet case, double cornet case, or trumpet and cornet case, which is very useful.

So, all that said, there's one other thing that would keep me from putting music inside a case most of the time. I routinely play in multiple groups/bands, and on any given day I might be headed to a different one, so I want to be able to see (quickly) that I have the right music with me before I drive somewhere and discover I have the wrong folder.

Yes, I can see what you mean about this.

Take care

Lou


_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 3656
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
The iPac triple case I have has a zippered pocket on the outside that easily accommodates a full-size music folder full of music. As previously stated, a double case isn't gong to be large enough for a pocket that size.

Hi Dale

I fully understand regarding a double case not being large enough for a pocket of a necessary size. I seriously considered a triple, but thought that even if I could get everything in it, it would end up big and heavy (I appreciate that I could have a wheeled version).

The advantage of my new case is that it is small, around the same size as my Yamaha double case, and no bigger than the size of a typical single trumpet case with a mute storage compartment.


The compartment in the Jakob Winter case was handy for brass band, because I could carry all my music for the current concert in it in a manila folder, as well as having room in the case for all the mutes I would need. Just pick up the case and head out the door.





Thanks for sharing the pictures of your case. I really like this case, and missed the Besson version when I sold my Sovereign.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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