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Chinese Trumpets


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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Chinese Trumpets Reply with quote

Let's say, out of necessity, you are forced to buy a Chinese horn due to financial concerns. Used horns or USA student horns aside for the moment, which Chinese brand(s) or company(ies) would be the most reliable and least likely to have horns manufactured with serious defects? I realize from discussions already posted that Chinese horns are at least subpar to many USA manufactured brands. Please bear in mind that returning the horn to the Chinese manufacturer for repair or replacement is out of the question due to the extremely high shipping costs.

You have one chance to get a solid, good playing Chinese horn without defects, which one would you chose?

Also, what trumpet manufacturers operate out of Taiwan? I understand that their quality control is somewhat better than mainland Chinese.

Thanks for your help - Rick
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Hugh Anderson
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jinbao
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really happy with the Cecilio brand. Their top level tt500 is very nice-well built with great valves
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taiwan and Chinese trumpets are totally not the same.

Taiwanese companies like carol brass and Eastman are good instruments. Simply very good instruments.

The Chinese horns seem like they all come from maybe 2 places. Jinbao makes some decent ones that are then etched with various names for importers. Even those have various problems though. The bells and valves are actually OK, even though those should be the hard things to make. Where they low it is on simple things like Soldering all the joints properly. And getting the receiver correct. It's amazing how bad the receivers fit. And that is one of the most important things.

They usually look pretty good too. If you fix the leaks, and get the receiver right the horns play pretty good.

The ones that actually look low quality, don't mess with
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trumpethead
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently bought one of these for the gigs I don't want to take my expensive trumpet to. https://www.thomann.de/intl/au/thomann_tr_500g_l_bb_trumpet.htm?id=0

Excellent copy of a Bach Strad and plays incredibly well for the money.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I believe the "Bach" student horns, as well as some other US makers are actually made in China... I believe you are looking at relatively cheap trumpets, but if not, check out the pro line horns Bill Pfund has made to his specs in China (not Taiwan). I got to play several of his when he stopped here at his daughter's place a couple years back. (She's a bang-up violinist with us.) Bill is meticulous in what he wants and works with the makers to produce them, going to China while the trumpets are being assembled. I'm assuming he'll be at ITG this year and perhaps you could drive over to try his wares. The rest of you who are able may also take a play at them as well. Wonderful human being. great player/teacher, and has really gone out on a limb with his own money to try to make good horns affordable to players, pros and amateurs alike.

Having stated the above, I bought a Berkely 3+1 pic (Yamaha copy) a year ago and it is a very good pic in A for what I paid. I continue to use my P5-4 but this thing would be perfect for weddings, etc. if someone didn't want to pay the $3K+ tag. I would assume their Bb horns would be similar. The Chinese instruments are fast coming up to higher standards and will continue to in the near future. I can well-remember when Yamaha instruments were considered to be crap by most major US makers, dealers and players. How'd that work out?

Remember, the #1 rule to play trumpet:

1. Get a trumpet. (Some places it's: First, steal a trumpet... but I digress) Good luck with your search and don't worry about how some peeps around here will try to spend your money.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I took a chance and ordered a Chinese copy of a Bach AB190S. It looks beautiful in the photos and I laid down the law about what I wanted checked thoroughly before it ships. I'm smart enough to realize that requesting all those checks are like peeing in the wind, however, I may very well take a royal hosing on this deal. Anyway, I'm anxious for it arrival and I'll keep you posted on how this "experiment" unfolds. Wish me luck!
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Last edited by Rick on Sun May 21, 2017 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck! Where did you order from? Can you post a link?
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
Taiwan and Chinese trumpets are totally not the same.

Taiwanese companies like carol brass and Eastman are good instruments. Simply very good instruments.
......


Absolutely, at least when it comes to CarolBrass (no experience here with Eastman). I also remember when many years ago "made in Japan" was anything but a positive statement, look where that is now, just look at the auto industry. I really think CarolBrass is where Yamaha was years ago; inexpensive but very good, and eventually will cost what other well respected instruments like Yamaha cost. (As Craig mentioned).

And IMO, CarolBrass horns are very good, and NOT just good relative to their cost.

(Wonder if CarolBrass makes motorcycles?)😉

Brad
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ajwan
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another one here for Carolbrass. Also check out Brasspire Unicorn (Japanese). If you email them, you'll likely get in tough with their head engineer / designer (Kei Aruga)!
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Evinerate
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CarolBrass that I had was an amazing dynamic horn, people love the heavy caps on them, it becomes an pretty efficient horn.

Brasspire is a Japanese make, and pretty popular with Trent Austin who is a dealer as well.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shop is called the Zi Xin Professional Music Store. I can't give you the exact URL of the store because it was accessed through what appears to be a merchant clearing house called AliExpress. They have their own app that allows you contact any number of different merchants. The app also allow you to search, order, send messages, chat, receive photos, as well as view your order status. You can also open the site through www.aliexpress.com and access the store from there. There was at least one other store that offered a price lower than what Zi Xin was charging but they matched the competitor's price. They are definitely open to negotiation which was a pleasant surprise. I also looked at a LT180S37 and, as mentioned in an earlier post, a YTR 4335G Yamaha copy. Delivery time is estimated at between 7 to 15 days.

So there you have it. Time will tell if I've been duped into a piece of junk or purchased a nice horn. I'll keep you posted![/img]
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Benge.nut
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
The shop is called the Zi Xin Professional Music Store. I can't give you the exact URL of the store because it was accessed through what appears to be a merchant clearing house called AliExpress. They have their own app that allows you contact any number of different merchants. The app also allow you to search, order, send messages, chat, receive photos, as well as view your order status. You can also open the site through www.aliexpress.com and access the store from there. There was at least one other store that offered a price lower than what Zi Xin was charging but they matched the competitor's price. They are definitely open to negotiation which was a pleasant surprise. I also looked at a LT180S37 and, as mentioned in an earlier post, a YTR 4335G Yamaha copy. Delivery time is estimated at between 7 to 15 days.

So there you have it. Time will tell if I've been duped into a piece of junk or purchased a nice horn. I'll keep you posted![/img]


Buddy, you've got such a great flugelhorn!! I can't understand why you want to risk money and time with a maybe good trumpet??

Many of us, would be happy to help you find a great Bb from a great manufacturer at a very reasonable price.

Hope it works out...but if not so,embody here can definitely help on you find something else
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually my Cecilio is so nice that I've been considering a no name $300 China job cornet. Most everything from respected makers are way way over priced. I for one don't like the idea of funding some rich [no cursing] guys luxry lifestyle, almost rather help make rent at the sweat shop (cause that's what Americans believe China is all about) a brand new Cecilio tt500 will run about $450! Mine is close to 10 years old and is still fine! A used anything decent American anything comparable will cost twice as much. Seems the American manufacturers need to be more competitive if they want to stay viable in the future.

[Yup, edited bu Moderators. And good luck with that whole luxury lifestyle thing while making trumpets in any country.]
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Benge.nut
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis78

Might wanna edit your post buddy!! Crossing some lines there....

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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benge.nut wrote:
Dennis78

Might wanna edit your post buddy!! Crossing some lines there....



Yep....moderator intervention (which I would agree with) in 3....2....

Brad
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese Trumpets Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Let's say, out of necessity, you are forced to buy a Chinese horn due to financial concerns. Used horns or USA student horns aside for the moment, which Chinese brand(s) or company(ies) would be the most reliable and least likely to have horns manufactured with serious defects?

Why set used horns or student horns aside? Used professional trumpets are usually a great deal. Why would you rather go with a horn that's - as you say (and I agree) - likely to have serious defects?

I've gotten very nice professional horns for less that $400 used - Benge, Besson, Selmer-Paris, Conn, Getzen. It takes more effort than clicking a button on a dubious website, though.

Buying from Ali Express? Yeah, good luck.

Dennis78 wrote:
Really happy with the Cecilio brand. Their top level tt500 is very nice-well built with great valves


Hmm.... I've had students with Cecilio branded trumpets and saxophones. They occasionally had parts fall off the instrument in the middle of band or lessons. Several were completely non-functional within the span of 6 months.

If I were to buy a Chinese horn, I'd buy from Trent Austin or maybe Dillon music. You're not going to get a wall ornament, that way. Anything else is a gamble that's not worth it, in my book.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese Trumpets Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
Rick wrote:
Let's say, out of necessity, you are forced to buy a Chinese horn due to financial concerns. Used horns or USA student horns aside for the moment, which Chinese brand(s) or company(ies) would be the most reliable and least likely to have horns manufactured with serious defects?

Why set used horns or student horns aside? Used professional trumpets are usually a great deal. Why would you rather go with a horn that's - as you say (and I agree) - likely to have serious defects?

I've gotten very nice professional horns for less that $400 used - Benge, Besson, Selmer-Paris, Conn, Getzen. It takes more effort than clicking a button on a dubious website, though.

Buying from Ali Express? Yeah, good luck.

Dennis78 wrote:
Really happy with the Cecilio brand. Their top level tt500 is very nice-well built with great valves


Hmm.... I've had students with Cecilio branded trumpets and saxophones. They occasionally had parts fall off the instrument in the middle of band or lessons. Several were completely non-functional within the span of 6 months.

If I were to buy a Chinese horn, I'd buy from Trent Austin or maybe Dillon music. You're not going to get a wall ornament, that way. Anything else is a gamble that's not worth it, in my book.


+1, all of the above.

I had a student with a new Cecillo that was basically self destructing, the valves were getting progressively (and quickly) worse. I hated to burst his bubble with his shiny new horn, so I didn't, but I doubt that any tech would touch it.

My Austin Custom Brass doubler's flugel seems well made, and plays well, but as mentioned above, Trent does not sell TSO's (trumpet, or in this case flugelhorn) Shaped Objects. For me, especially considering how little I use a flugel, it's perfectly adequate.

Brad
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you have it. Any brand trumpet will last forever, even low end TSOs.

However if one plans on playing it more than once a year, then one might need to be more discriminating.

If one is only playing in private for one's private enjoyment and they have a tin ear and cannot tell if a pitch is in tune, then it doesn't matter what quality horn one purchases.

However, if one begins playing in public or with others then they might want to make sure the instrument is good enough to keep up.

My point is that we don't know enough about the OP to determine what is good enough for him.
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SatchmoGillespie
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wisemann

I bought a Wisemann flugel off ebay a couple of years ago. It's cloan of the Yammie 631, I believe. It's held up quite well and intonation is solid. I did do a minor tweak by getting a real yamaha leadpipe and springs and it's even better. It's made a very solid backup horn when my Kanstul 1525 is getting serviced. Haven't played the trumpets, but the flugel was a solid deal.
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