• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

From "Flipper" to "Hoarder"



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jaysonr
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 611
Location: Wake Forest, NC

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: From "Flipper" to "Hoarder" Reply with quote

As you may have read in some recent threads, I finally found the diameter which works best for me. That is roughly what most would call a "3" diameter.

I tried for a long time to downsize, and I always went too far. I always felt like the "3" wouldn't be different/smaller enough to make a real difference in endurance, so I always jumped over the "3" to the "5" in my downsizing efforts. Obviously it never worked, and I'd rebound to the "big stuff".

Once I landed on the "3" diameter, my world quite literally opened up. It was a true epiphany moment. I learned that a smaller rim wasn't about gaining endurance, but was about finding the ring size which fit my chops properly.

When I was playing larger pieces, I was super picky about rim contour and "alpha angle" type stuff. Once I discovered the "3" diameter, I have found that none of that really matters. Different pieces might feel ever-so-slightly different when I first put them to my face, but after a few notes I don't notice it, and I can play pretty much anything in that diameter well. My mouthpieces now are more about fine tuning sound for the particular situation, than about finding the magic piece which would suddenly fix all of my problems.

In turn, instead of trying and then flipping mouthpieces to go on to the next great thing, I find myself hanging onto them because I know they might be useful. Although I may have one piece I do the majority of my playing on, I now see having a larger collection in a suitable diameter a good idea.

I was curious if anyone else went on a safari, discovered their perfect rim size, and had similar findings.
_________________
“Heroes turn into martyrs on this instrument.” — William Vacchiano
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JVL
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 120
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jayson
According to my experience, i think you should wait for about 1 year to be sure that this ID is really for you.

In 2012, because i started to practice even more seriously (even being pro since 1990), in a lot of styles, for many more hours a day, i became sure that this little feeling i had sometimes about my yam Shew lead's ID being a little too large was right.
Since i liked no other rim contour and shape i tried, even if some mpcs i tried had an ID suiting me better, i asked my teacher Bobby Shew about his advice and he told me to try Ingram Marcinkiewicz because it's a downsized version of the Shew Marc.
Immediately this ID gave me great results ! at last! And the rim was top ! After some adjustments, my playing improved a lot.

I searched for deeper mpcs in that size, and for me it was the Bach 10 3/4A. Was very happy with it except for rim contour.
So one year later, end of 2103, i decided to ask Marcinkiewicz make me custom mpcs for classical and jazz ballads, and gave them the specs.
The first one had a 27 throat and sympho bb, but i felt too tight and with a 26 throat it was better.
So i ordered a line with different spcs, for trumpet, cornet and flug.

But playing and practicing, and improving more, a problem appeared : the Ingram lead was very good, but this ID on deeper cups was finally too tight, giving me less flex, difficulty in articulating etc...

Was hard to decide then how much to increase ID.....so i increased from 16.54mm (i feel the equivalent in Bach is rather 15.75), to 16.59 (one based on Ingram model, another one with a Bach A cup style) , and not to waste time, i ordered also 16.64 (lead and deep) and 16.69 (deep).

The 16.59mm ID was immediately very very good with the deep mpc, while it was a little little bit too large for lead version. But like i didn't want to change IDs, i quit with the original Ingram, and started to play lead with my lead version. After some weeks of practice, no more prob.

So from end of 2015 to this day, my ID is 16.59 for every mpcs. 6 for trumpet, 1 for cornet, 1 for flug.
Because i spent so many time and hours on these mpcs, i have the very fine kinesthesic sensations that permit me to feel the minim veriations, and give me the possibilities to know which specs to change if i want to change a parameter or another one.

For you, while i think it's ok to try some stock mpcs with different cups, bb, throats etc., it'd be too early to enter in custom mpcs work...it's not cheap even if you can get a big discount depending on how many mpcs you'd order.

Take patience and some more time will tell you if, what and when it's ok for!

Best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 120
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayson, in case it was not such a question you were asking, sorry for giving advice not asked..... ('')
i hope anyway my experience will interest you
Best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstdenis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 1503
Location: Atlanta GA

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there's a perfect rim size for me, but there's a range of rim sizes that would work. I've settled on one that's just big enough to fit my embouchure without scrunching, even if I get some lip swelling during a strenuous rehearsal or performance, but no bigger, because I don't want to deal with excessive cup volume.

I don't switch back and forth between different pieces for the same instrument—I'd rather just stick with one. For me, any potential mechanical benefit from changing pieces seems to be more than offset by lack of familiarity with the different piece. And practice time is a scarce resource; I'd rather devote my time practicing other things that need work instead of maintaining familiarity with different mouthpieces.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 120
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually i practice with 2 mpcs : my deepest one, and the one that the job requires at that time.
I practice always all the fundamentals with the 2 mpcs. It can be via my routine and /or by playing some charts, repertoire etc.
It makes sense practicing on the mpc you'll use for a specific style. So, if you play several styles, you'll have to rotate with all your mpcs, or almost all

When i'm in a period of lot of gigs, i'll play mostly my lead mpc, and my deepest one during the morning, except on gig's days.
But i'll play sometimes some exercices or repertoire with my lead mpc, even if i'd not use it in true situation, or pro context : by example, for compensate the heavy hard work of salsa and big band, during rest days, i'll play Bach's Cello suites, for soft control, accuracy, aerobic process...

the goal is to work all aspects, whatever the mpcs, and keep the familiarity with the mpcs. I talked about this with Bobby Shew weeks ago, and he told me that to maintain the familiarity and control with a mpc, you must practice on it a minimum of 30mn a day, at least 4 days a week.

Best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trumpetingbynurture
Veteran Member


Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL wrote:
Hello Jayson
According to my experience, i think you should wait for about 1 year to be sure that this ID is really for you.

...it's not cheap even if you can get a big discount depending on how many mpcs you'd order.

Just a quick comment on this. Generally this is true, but James New will make custom tops for less than you would pay for a stock Warburton top. The great thing about this is that once you're in the right diameter ball park you can slowly tweak things and control variables better rather than starting from scratch each time.
(Although Jim is temporarily out of action while moving house.)

The down side is that people probably won't be so interested in customs from a resale point of view. But if they are close fits, yours just keep them anyway, right? As you never know when that variation will be the tool for the job
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Locutus2k
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 445
Location: Rome, Italy

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rim contour really matters. I play on the HT 3 mouthpieces that are, obviously, in the "3" size and Curry 5 rims. The HT3 has a flatter rim and the mouthpiece on the face is actually smaller than a Curry "5" that has a rounder rim with more bite. But if you look at ID charts the 3 should be bigger than the 5 ... bottom line: i've found that size doesn't matter, unless you're moving in the same line of mouthpieces from the same maker. Just find what works better and stick with it.

And for the "lead" pieces my suggestion is to find a piece with the exact size and rim contour of the main piece but different cup/bore/backbore and practice with it even when you're not using it for gigs.
_________________
------------------------
Lawler TL5 L bore
Lawler C7 Deluxe ML stepbore
Conn 8b
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry and Horn Trader pieces
------------------------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 120
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Trumpettingbynurtrure for the infos. I looked at JN's website, it's very interesting, but the point is the differences in rim sizes given from the other manufacturers...
That's why i agree with Locutus (salve, cumpadre ! )about being careful at charts, and better to stick with the same brand.
Best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trumpetingbynurture
Veteran Member


Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVL wrote:
Thanks Trumpettingbynurtrure for the infos. I looked at JN's website, it's very interesting, but the point is the differences in rim sizes given from the other manufacturers...
That's why i agree with Locutus (salve, cumpadre ! )about being careful at charts, and better to stick with the same brand.
Best


Yeah I know. I guess what I was saying though is that say you think you're in the ball park in terms of diameter, but you're not totally happy. The conventional route is to change diameter or depth. With many stock mouthpieces though, this means also changing a half dozen other things, so you may move up a diameter size and decide you don't like it, but really, it wasn't the diameter, it was that the rim contour and width was different, the undercut was different, the bite was different, the throat entrance was different... So really, you don't have any idea about the outcome of trying a different size except that the particular piece you tried either worked or didn't.
My new approach to mouthpieces is that after a while, if I'm feeling something isn't quite right, I'll have Jim make me a slightly variation of what I'm playing. My next round of changes will be to round off the bite a little and to get a few more variations in cup depths/shape so that I have some more colours to choose from.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Benge.nut
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 688

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flipper?? I hardly knew her

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group