Why vintage trumpets are better?

dcjway · Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject:

To hear trumpet players talk, the world of trumpets is precarious, "bad" trumpets are everywhere, you have to test a lot of trumpets to find a "good" one. This is a symptom of an epidemic: Blaming equipment for the shortcomings of the player. Thus, the eternal search for the "perfect" trumpet, the "perfect" mouthpiece, the "perfect" gadget."

You mean that if I were to get a 1939 Martin Committee #3 to go with the NY Bach 3 mouthpiece that I have I'm not going to sound just like Chris Botti. Life is over as I know it.

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LittleRusty · Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:46 pm Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

Dennis78 · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:04 am Post subject:

I for one don't believe the whole bad trumpet notion, unless of course it's a mechanical issue every one I've tried all sound decent with decent valve action. I have 3 "tso's" that I think are nice, I've given away 2 that were just fine. All but one had valve issues but after about a year of regular play and stepped up cleaning they've all got pretty good valves-as good as a Strad? No way! As good as my t602 Collegiate-yes. What I'm getting at is to me an amateur player vintage or not they all play good but different. I got to try a lot of killer vintage brass this past Sunday and some very new. All played great. New has the added benefit of consistent performance across the model lines because of computer controlled manufacturing, warranties and it's new. Find a horn you like-vintage, new, student, cornet whatever if you're comfortable playing it that's what counts. Vintage and antique horns will always have a cool factor that new ones don't seem to have though
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a few different ones

robbrand · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:00 am Post subject:

dstdenis · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:04 am Post subject:

yourbrass · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:39 am Post subject:

[quote="dcjway"]To hear trumpet players talk, the world of trumpets is precarious, "bad" trumpets are everywhere, you have to test a lot of trumpets to find a "good" one. This is a symptom of an epidemic: Blaming equipment for the shortcomings of the player. Thus, the eternal search for the "perfect" trumpet, the "perfect" mouthpiece, the "perfect" gadget."

I play lots of trumpets in my work, and only a few are "bad", meaning they really suck. Most play fine, sort of in the "well, this is a trumpet" range. Once in a while, I am fortunate enough to play one that stands out from the rest. My buddy's Meha, some Bachs that really feel open, etc. are ones that come to mind. If you are taking them out on gigs/rehearsals etc., that's when some things become apparent that don't necessarily appear in the practice room.
I agree that there is no perfect anything.
-Lionel
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Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

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spach · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:48 am Post subject:

bg · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:15 am Post subject:

It's often been said that the audience only knows what the horn sounds like; they don't care about anything else.

However, as a player, I'm only concerned with how the horn feels and reacts. I basically sound the same on every horn I play. Slotting, resistance, pitch and ease of response are everything to me; they make the difference between a good performance and one in which I struggle. Therefore, I never choose a horn based upon sound.

I have not played an instrument made in the last 50 years that meets my expectations for an excellent trumpet. Period.
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Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject:

hose · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject:

+1
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Picketts
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derby_mute · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject:

derby_mute · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject:

To begin this post, I believe the term "vintage" pertains to something 25 years old or older.

Throughout my professional career I've played many trumpets and cornets. Vintage horns represent good value, especially if they are in excellent condition and good playing instruments. I've bought and sold lots of horns, and I've found many closet horns that were either played only for a short time and put away, or those owned by people who kept them in excellent condition. To me, if makes absolutely no difference whether the horn was 10, 40, or 100 years old. If it played well and was responsive, it worked FOR ME, and, for the players who bought those horns from me.

I still own a number of horns even though I no longer play professionally. I only own one "modern" horn, bought new, a Selmer Concept cornet. It's a beautifully made instrument that is a wonderful player. But - is it BETTER than some of my vintage horns? No, but certainly on a par with some of the vintage horns I own.

Last year I bought a 1969 Selmer model 43 cornet. These are rare horns as Selmer didn't make very many of them. This cornet was owned by someone who rarely played it, so it's in incredible condition. It is now my favorite cornet. I also bought a like-new 1977 Benge cornet from the daughter of the original owner. Again - rarely played, and a totally killer horn, which I bought for a fraction of the cost of a new cornet.

A few years back I bought, and very sadly sold, one of the best trumpets I've ever played: a 1936 King Silvertone Artist model. Just unbelievable; a closet horn in impeccable condition.

I used to work in a band where the leader a modern cornet and trumpet by the same maker. He bought them new. I played both and didn't like either one.

So from my experience I can't buy into the notion that modern horns are better than vintage. But I do recommend a player buys the horn that works the best for he or she. If it's modern - fine. If it's vintage - fine.
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Cornets:
Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
Baldwin Custom (Blessing Artist stencil)
1923 Buescher shepherd's crook
1880 F. Besson Paris
Trumpets:
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1935 Olds French model

p76 · Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject:

....of course, in 25 years time, the new horn bought today will be "vintage"...

Cheers,
Roger
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Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

VetPsychWars · Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:47 am Post subject:

Amazing how much better your horn plays after you get fit for a GR piece by a competent consultant.

Of all the people who have tried my horns, none have outright said they sucked. Might not have matched their playing style or mouthpiece though.

Just another vintage horn worth trying and undervalued at the moment.

Tom
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1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
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MacMichael · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 646

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John Mohan · Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:54 am Post subject:

Here's a point to consider:

Yes, with CNC technology, consistency is WAY up. One buying a new horn today from a major manufacturer is less likely than ever to get a dud. But back in the day, extremely talented artist/craftsmen designed and built amazing horns. There was less consistency back then, especially as a maker became successful, expanded operations, and produced more and more horns, making it necessary to hire more and more workers. We can see this drop in consistency effect in the histories of all the major trumpet manufacturers, and that's why some of the Mt. Vernon Bachs, early Elkhart Bachs, Chicago Benges, Burbank Benges and early Los Angeles Benges are so sought after.

There's a reason I wrote "some": There were duds from that early era and a lot of them in comparison to what's being made today. But the duds of yesteryear are largely gone now (because they sucked and were eventually discarded). Sure, some are still out there being sold (over and over) on eBay. But I think for the most part, the horns from the early era that have survived, have survived because they were the "players" - the great horns - from that era. "Survival of the fittest."

There are exceptions to the way most companies had a drop in quality and consistency as they grew and expanded. Schilke comes to mind immediately. With few exceptions, each and every Schilke built throughout the company history, has been a great horn. I think a large part of the reason for this is that Renold ruled the company with an iron fist. And truth be told, Schilke has never enjoyed the level of success and company expansion that rocketed Bach and Benge to massive amounts of production (compared to when the companies were working out of home garages and such). When thinking of Renold, Zig Kanstul comes to mind - another dictatorial ruler that in turn created a successful company that turns out high quality products of good consistency. There are others, but my gosh, this post is already majorly loooooonnng...

There, I think I've summed it all up - but I have a feeling another five pages of replies are still on the way.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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