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ProAm
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Sad Reply with quote

I recently won a trumpet on ebay that looked to be in very good condition and at a good price. When the horn arrived it looked even better than described - like new, case like new, accessories included that weren't mentioned. Great! Playing-wise the horn is just as nice.

Waiting for the other shoe to drop yet?

After about 10 mins of playing I am looking the horn over and I start running my hand along the bell. There is a dent that I didn't see at first. Looking more closely it looks like the bell has been pushed in a little from the rim at one point. Hard to notice unless you are looking for it.

What happened?

Pure conjecture on my part, but I'm pretty sure this is it. The horn was shipped in its case. It is a great, solid case, BUT it does not lock the horn in place very securely. I am convinced that this dent was caused during shipping by the box being dropped on its end.

The seller didn't know any better. I mean, a case protects the horn, right?? IF ONLY they had put some bubble wrap in the case to better keep the horn secure; to keep it from being able to slide back-and-forth.

Now I have what was really a new horn that has an annoying dent in it that did not have to be there.

Please pack carefully when you ship!!!!!!
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Larry Smithee
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. It's happened to me too. The horn has to be locked down. No wiggle or a dent can happen with the smallest hit.
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veery715
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a Harrelson shipped from Norway with a crinkled and now repaired bell from exactly this kind of thing. After I specifically asked for it to be shipped separately and described how it should be wrapped. Quite annoying.
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Craig Swartz
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you should be reminded that you did not "win" an instrument on Ebay- you bought one there... BFD!!!
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tanda
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
Perhaps you should be reminded that you did not "win" an instrument on Ebay- you bought one there... BFD!!!


If he was the high bidder, then he won the auction. It's the correct word for the situation.
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Benge.nut
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Joined: 18 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irritating. I always ask to have the case and horn shipped separately. It's just a kiss of death shipping a trumpet in its case I've found.

I'd gladly pay the extra shipping cost for another box, or tell the seller to throw away the case. I've got enough cases.

Tie the slides so they don't come loose, bubble wrap the horn, use packing peanuts with a couple inches of cushion on each side. Easy. Takes no time. Never had a horn damaged that way.

Frustrated for you OP
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plunkett
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Joined: 05 Jun 2002
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Location: Wheeling, WV

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing happened to me many years ago with a Calicchio...

Pat
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ProAm
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
Perhaps you should be reminded that you did not "win" an instrument on Ebay- you bought one there... BFD!!!


I was speaking colloquially, of course. I do agree with you that words have meaning and that we should use them carefully.
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ProAm
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benge.nut wrote:
Irritating.
Yep.
Benge.nut wrote:
Tie the slides so they don't come loose...

The 3rd slide was totally extended, kept from falling off only by the 3rd slide catch screw. This plus the type of damage is what makes me believe that it happened during shipment.
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dcjway
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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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Location: Wilmington, De

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my 1934 NY Bach from the daughter of the original owner, she sent it to me in the original case with no padding, and if you have ever seen a Bach case from the 1930's I wouldn't use it to drive to a gig. The bell was badly damaged but because the horn was the best NY Bach I have ever played I decided to keep it. It was disheartening but I contacted Charlie Melk and sent him pictures and he said he could fix it. When I got it back from him you could not tell the horn was ever damaged.
Contact the seller and let them know about it, if they are decent they will work with you. If it bothers you that much try to return it, if you like the horn they may give you part of your money back for repairs. Good luck.
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1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed that this is a big deal, the seller should be notified, and compensation should be made.

Some top players will assert that a fixed bell never plays the same, so it's better to leave as is if it plays ok.

I disagree that a horn "can't" be shipped in its case; it just can't naively be assumed thats all the protection it needs. And shipper's guidelines do nothing for us! An extra 4" on each side of the case? Double boxing? No. It's what's inside the case that counts. Bubble wrap works well, and there are some really good instructional videos to be found
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ProAm
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcjway wrote:
Contact the seller and let them know about it, if they are decent they will work with you.

razeontherock wrote:
Agreed that this is a big deal, the seller should be notified, and compensation should be made.

The seller actually contacted me first, as he or she wanted to make sure the trumpet arrived safely. I did reply and tell him or her what I believed had happened.

I had about decided not to mention it for a few reasons:
The person was likely an adult beginner who bought a nice set-up and then decided to give up. They had little experience with the trumpet at all. This was probably the first and only time they shipped one.
The damage is really very slight. If I were only near a genius repairer like Melk, Landess &c. I am sure they could quickly set it to rights at a modest cost.
The person included books, mutes, stand, and oils that weren't advertised, items that could be sold for maybe $50 or so; that is, potentially covering the cost of repair.

I don't expect or even desire compensation. I will hang onto it, hopefully finding a competent repair tech before too long. It is just sad that but for a bit of bubble wrap in the right place this horn would have be like brand new.
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trombahonker
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless I know the seller knows how to ship a trumpet, I always provide instructions, and a link to pictures of how to pack a trumpet the way I prefer. Sometimes in annoys people, but they'll usually do it.

Doctor Valve shipping instructions
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dcjway
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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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Location: Wilmington, De

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear your follow up. The thing about brass, it dents easily and finding a dent is frustrating. I remember sitting under bright lights one night and seeing a tiny ding in my Shires (which was caused by me) and feeling annoyed, then noticing a few other little things (again caused by me) that no one else may of noticed. I still love the horn and the way it plays and accept that these things happen.
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Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate
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derby_mute
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I buy a horn on ebay, I always ask the seller if they know the correct way to pack it. I tell them "horn cases were NOT made for shipping; they were made to physically transport the horn from place to place." I then give the rundown on wrapping it in bubble wrap so that there is no way it can move in the case, etc. I also tell them to wrap the mouthpiece (and any other things like mutes, etc) and place them in the box outside the case or in the compartment under where the horn sits (obviously if there's room in the case for a mute in a separate compartment they can put it there, wrapped in bubblewrap). I also tell them to wrap the case in the box with large size bubble wrap (rather than packing peanuts).

I've rarely had any problems - and generally only when I made the mistake of thinking the seller knew had to pack an instrument - and didn't (like someone with a history of selling horns).
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Cornets:
Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
Baldwin Custom (Blessing Artist stencil)
1923 Buescher shepherd's crook
1880 F. Besson Paris
Trumpets:
1931 Cleveland Greyhound
1935 Olds French model
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I've probably bought 30-40 horns on Ebay and never had one arrive with issues caused during shipping. I just pay the bill and wait for it to get to me. Sometimes they have extra packing, sometimes they don't.
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Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
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Larry Smithee
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once bought a Selmer T on eBay. The seller mailed the horn in the case but didn't even bother to put the thing in a box. He just wrapped some tape around the case and stuck the address on the side. Miraculously, the horn arrived in fine shape. I've never seen anything like that since.
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cjl
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst packing job I have ever received was a Yamaha Chicago Bb purchased from WW&BW a few years ago on a scratch-and-dent sale. The horn was in the case and the case was essentially loose in a box with only a token amount of bubble wrap. The case was very free to just bounce around inside the box.

Nothing was secured; the first slide had come off and was bouncing around inside the case. There was a scratch on the horn but I don't know if the loose slide caused that -- it was a scratch-and-dent horn, after all.

But it basically survived the shipping OK.

-- Joe
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Bflatman
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horns are delicate shipping is not, its a crapshoot.

I buy from sellers I can collect in person from so I dont have any risk, but you dont always have that option.

My best condition horn was shipped in its case unprotected, the worst was the most protected.

Find a good tech to fix shipping problems, collect where possible. Sacrifice a Goat if you have to.
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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:43 am    Post subject: Sad Reply with quote

I just opened up a used cornet a friend sent me from Texas. He buys sells and trades constantly, and he wanted me to start playing again. After having it in
the box for a year I opened it and found it just fine. He had it wrapped in layers of bubble pack and p-nuts with an old mouthpiece. It was a nearly black silver plated King 602. A little work, some silver polish and penetrant to free the tuning slide and It is a very nice looking horn again. I feel lucky. The horn is only between 45-50 years and the silver is about 97% with no noticeable valve wear. When I pick up my own trumpet I want to return the cornet to my friend and make sure nothing like your experience happens. Thanks for the entry
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