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Cola
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
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Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject: How do you guys do Reply with quote

It seems to me that there are so many different approaches to the trumpet that you never know if you're doing it right, regardless of the results. Everyone has his creed on trumpet playing. I've been playing for three years know, practicing at least 3 hours a day and more (I am a jazz player, so I work on language and blowing as well) and am still struggling with top of the staff g (though I've hit even high Ds at some points). I am anxious since everytime I practice, I am afraid of doing it the ''wrong'' way and wasting my time. Not that it refrains me from the woodshed, but it kinda sucks to have that feeling whenever you pick up the horn. I Am tired of being told by one that this works and that it doesn't by another. Has anyone of you got a 100% accurate routine on how to improve sound, range, endurance, flexibility?

P.s : Yes, I have had teachers but as I said, some people have conflicting views and I am stuck in between, wondering who to listen to.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's safe to say that there is no 100% right way to go about learning the trumpet. Different approaches work better for different people. If you're seeing regular improvement then you're approach probably doing something right and should stick with it for a while. Doesn't mean you shouldn't occasionally look into different approaches to see if there's something better.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I teach in a way that has been 100% successful. Let me know where you live and perhaps I can hook you up with a teacher.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back when I first learned trumpet, I wasn't aware that there were different schools of thought for trumpet playing. Everyone learned the basics pretty much the same way it seemed, then some trumpeters would tend to favor either jazz or orchestral style playing (although many continued to play both).

So I don't think it's necessary that you align yourself with one school of teaching or another. You can if you want, but you really don't have to. Once I became aware of these different approaches, I did take the time to learn about them to see what they have to offer, but I don't get into debates over which is better.

I think you could do very well if you continue to develop fundamental skills and play music, preferably in ensembles. And you'll do even better if you avoid common mistakes that many trumpet students make, like

(1) spending too much time playing at the very edge of your capabilities rather than a balanced approach to continue to make your fundamental skills stronger while testing yourself every so often,

(2) playing too much after exhaustion, and

(3) playing too loud all the time, rather than developing your ability to play well at all dynamics, especially very soft.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Find what works for YOU. As Bobby Shew says ... YOU are your own best teacher. Each of us is different; therefore, listen to differing approaches ... try them ... and if they don't work for you then they are not the correct approach for YOU. My first private lesson was when I was 52 years old. Before that, I had just played "naturally" without anyone saying your doing this wrong or that wrong.
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PH
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Yes, I teach in a way that has been 100% successful. Let me know where you live and perhaps I can hook you up with a teacher.


Bill speaks truth. Where are you located?
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are as many methods as there are players, which isn't to say any which way will lead to the top - that's post modern BS; the most important aspect is the desire and drive to better one's self, to love and pursue music above all.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
There are as many methods as there are players, which isn't to say any which way will lead to the top - that's post modern BS; the most important aspect is the desire and drive to better one's self, to love and pursue music above all.


But if the instrument is in the way no amount of desire will create success.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: How do you guys do Reply with quote

Cola wrote:
It seems to me that there are so many different approaches to the trumpet that you never know if you're doing it right, regardless of the results. Everyone has his creed on trumpet playing. I've been playing for three years know, practicing at least 3 hours a day and more (I am a jazz player, so I work on language and blowing as well) and am still struggling with top of the staff g (though I've hit even high Ds at some points). I am anxious since everytime I practice, I am afraid of doing it the ''wrong'' way and wasting my time. Not that it refrains me from the woodshed, but it kinda sucks to have that feeling whenever you pick up the horn. I Am tired of being told by one that this works and that it doesn't by another. Has anyone of you got a 100% accurate routine on how to improve sound, range, endurance, flexibility?

P.s : Yes, I have had teachers but as I said, some people have conflicting views and I am stuck in between, wondering who to listen to.


You could also try switching to another instrument. Three people I know, with myself being one of them, switched to another instrument and found all of that go away. Life became easy and the only obstacle became expression of the art and content. Jazz is particularly suited to alternate instruments. The instruments were french horn, baritone horn and flugelhorn. Trumpet was the common issue and other horns removed the stumbling block. I could also include trombone and tuba as those also relieved the stress issue. I play mellophone (marching french horn) playing the trombone part or the trumpet part in a jazz band. True it is my band and I make the rules, but art expression is art expression.
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Cola
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Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
Billy B wrote:
Yes, I teach in a way that has been 100% successful. Let me know where you live and perhaps I can hook you up with a teacher.


Bill speaks truth. Where are you located?


Quebec, Canada (lol, good luck with that one). Besides, I already have a teacher (classic guy teaching to a jazz seeking player, em...). He intends to change the whole way I play, and that doesn't entirely suit me since I have university auditions next week and lots and lots of rehearsals, school projects, etc... so I have to work both my usual embouchure and develop a new one. He tells me to work both aspects separately, but that makes quite a lot of learning and unlearning for my brain to assimilate.... my confidence is at its lowest point and it really sucks since I think I work hard and the more time goes by, the more I realise that for a fraction of results I must give the tenfold of efforts, smart efforts that is. Feels kinda bad always wondering whether you're doing it right or not instead of focusing on the music.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RussellDDixon wrote:
Find what works for YOU. As Bobby Shew says ... YOU are your own best teacher. Each of us is different; therefore, listen to differing approaches ... try them ... and if they don't work for you then they are not the correct approach for YOU. My first private lesson was when I was 52 years old. Before that, I had just played "naturally" without anyone saying your doing this wrong or that wrong.



I was 72 when I took my first lesson. Like Russel D I had been playing all my musical life just idling on with a motley of trumpet-books, finding some of them more rewarding. Played lead, solocornet, rather successfully - on an amateur basis.
But when finally I wanted to practice a lot, "starting a new career as a hornblower" and had the time available, I found an embouchure built on loose grounds.
If I had taken lessons much much much earlier - the basics in blowing - oh, gee, that would have made a huge difference. All these hours fighting for good chops Me not being a "natural". But - what my teacher observed was this fighting (tenseness, producing tones with all available efforts)! He helped me "hone" myself, relax, blow, project, breathe, in essence telling me "you are your own natural self and don´t you ever fight it again"! May sound weird but you have gotta build with the bricks you´ve got.
So go find yourself a teacher and learn to "listen to your lips"!
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Need new teacher Reply with quote

If you live in a large city in Quebec province, find an instructor that teaches jazz not classic. Appears that you are not happy with the instruction. Do you have any professional musician friends, they could help you find an instructor that suits your needs. Why waste your money,time and get so stressed out.

Laissez les bons temps rouler!!
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furcifer
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Learning to be your own teacher is probably the highest goal of taking lessons - and that's not limited to what genre of music you primarily seek to play. The fundamental approach of playing exercises and methods ARE dependent to significant extent on embouchure type, complicated by the fact that everyone is different. Your current teacher is in the best position to assess this. If he's recommending that you make a change, it's because what you're doing is or will limit you in some way.

And look - sometimes you're gonna have to back up, punt and go back at it with a different approach. This can cause a loss of trust in your process or the ability to identify a more successful approach, going forward. Your chops will eventually tell you something is wrong, but they often can't tell you with immediate affirmation whether something you try for the first time is going to work better. It takes time to futz around with this stuff and see what's going to work out, and learning to replicate sensations and positive playing experiences from each practice session to the next with a new approach.

I've been playing for decades, and I've just gone through my third embouchure change and the 6th primary mouthpiece change of my playing career over that time. A lot of this latest change is based on how and what I want to play TODAY, as well as what's changed about "equipment thought" (I came from the bigger-mouthpiece-is-better era) and range development in the many years since I started. What's great about it is that I still have playing goals and I'm still highly motivated by improving and performance opportunities.

Now, going out on a limb, not being able to see how you play, I can understand your frustration with your range not being quite what many others will often have after 3 years, so it seems to reinforce your teacher's recommendation that you make a significant change. If you feel stuck on making progress with it because of playing commitments, address these gigs ONE at a time with your teacher. Doing "double-duty" in the practice room for a while does suck, but we are all faced with it, sooner or later.

What you can be CONFIDENT in is your ETHIC. A trickle of water cut the Grand Canyon. I know you don't want to take millions of years to see great success, LOL, but the point is that your diligence WILL generate a breakthrough, and generate more confidence in your upper range and endurance ALL ON ITS OWN, as long as your embouchure choice (it IS a choice!) has the potential to produce those results.

SO, how do you *know* if it's right? Well, you'll be able to tell by occasional bouts of seemingly inexplicable success, LOL A squeak of a note that wouldn't come out at all before, a bigger, fuller sound on a given passage, and just a feeling of being able to play confidently that will build over time. You are, after all, always free to make adjustments on the fly at all times, but do these things deliberately and go slow enough to remember how it feels and what you're doing when things seem to be working well, so that you can return to that sensation whenever you encounter any problems later on.
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rufflicks
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like there is an embouchure issue and accompanying reluctance to examine or deal with this. If you are only able to play to the top of the staff after 3 years there is some form of development that has not taken place. You state you are doing University auditions. This would imply that you are in your late teens. After 3 years of practicing 3 hours a day things should be a bit better range wise. Any teacher you work with must deal with this aspect of your playing. (Yes Chet Baker bla, bla, bla,) The single most talked about issue with trumpet players is range; and for good reason). If you struggle to get to the top of the staff your voice is limited to a strained 2 octave range. You probably hover in about an octave an a third. This single aspect is limiting. No it does not mean that great solos can’t be brought to life or great music can’t happen but, it does mean you have an issue that will keep you from being the total player you could possibly be.

I know what it is to stop everything and learn to play all over again. This is not an easy task and it is one that will put giging on hold. My strongest recommendation is to deal with this during the summer as you prepare to enter the University you have been accepted or invited to attend. I would contact the trumpet teacher at that school and ask to take a few lessons before the year starts. In this way you can have them diagnose your issues and recommend an action plan. You will have/take the opportunity to get a start at building a new approach before you enter any ensemble commitments. You should have at least 2 months to build a foundation and have it in place before you enter your first graded ensemble or lesson.

Yes you are right, I do not know you or your situation. I do know exactly what I am suggesting and I maintain that this is not going to be easy, comfortable or even feel like the right thing to do for your, “career”, or growth. This is all about going deep in the shed and working basics from the ground up. It is not going to be playing your best lines and working on changes. It must be a complete commitment to approach and fundamentals. The benefit could be quite life altering. The alternative is to continue on the same path you are currently on. This path has led you to where you are. Are you happy? You can do this, but you must want to do it bad enough to let go and commit yourself.

Good luck and I hope you have success in all that you do.


Best,

Jon
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Cola
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rufflicks wrote:
It sounds like there is an embouchure issue and accompanying reluctance to examine or deal with this. If you are only able to play to the top of the staff after 3 years there is some form of development that has not taken place. You state you are doing University auditions. This would imply that you are in your late teens. After 3 years of practicing 3 hours a day things should be a bit better range wise. Any teacher you work with must deal with this aspect of your playing. (Yes Chet Baker bla, bla, bla,) The single most talked about issue with trumpet players is range; and for good reason). If you struggle to get to the top of the staff your voice is limited to a strained 2 octave range. You probably hover in about an octave an a third. This single aspect is limiting. No it does not mean that great solos can’t be brought to life or great music can’t happen but, it does mean you have an issue that will keep you from being the total player you could possibly be.

I know what it is to stop everything and learn to play all over again. This is not an easy task and it is one that will put giging on hold. My strongest recommendation is to deal with this during the summer as you prepare to enter the University you have been accepted or invited to attend. I would contact the trumpet teacher at that school and ask to take a few lessons before the year starts. In this way you can have them diagnose your issues and recommend an action plan. You will have/take the opportunity to get a start at building a new approach before you enter any ensemble commitments. You should have at least 2 months to build a foundation and have it in place before you enter your first graded ensemble or lesson.

Yes you are right, I do not know you or your situation. I do know exactly what I am suggesting and I maintain that this is not going to be easy, comfortable or even feel like the right thing to do for your, “career”, or growth. This is all about going deep in the shed and working basics from the ground up. It is not going to be playing your best lines and working on changes. It must be a complete commitment to approach and fundamentals. The benefit could be quite life altering. The alternative is to continue on the same path you are currently on. This path has led you to where you are. Are you happy? You can do this, but you must want to do it bad enough to let go and commit yourself.

Good luck and I hope you have success in all that you do.


Best,

Jon



Thing is, I did change my embouchure with said teacher. I do as he says, fewer amd simpler exercices technique-wise. The results are....mixed. I can sound better at times but I lost range and consistency. He even tells me to stop overthinking but he doesn't understand that the reason behind my questioning is that I don't have much answers. I would like to know that I'm THERE at last and that I can finally move on, but it really sucks that cutting almost completely my personal playing for a specific approach has me improving VERY SLOWLY in terms of technique (did I already mention I lost confidence,endurance, consistency and range?) and neglect the rest such as reading and improvisation. I become less and less of a musician but not very much better at my instrument.

Too bad that I can't play the way I did with my former teacher.
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: How do you guys do Reply with quote

Cola wrote:
It seems to me that there are so many different approaches to the trumpet that you never know if you're doing it right, regardless of the results. Everyone has his creed on trumpet playing. I've been playing for three years know, practicing at least 3 hours a day and more (I am a jazz player, so I work on language and blowing as well) and am still struggling with top of the staff g (though I've hit even high Ds at some points). I am anxious since everytime I practice, I am afraid of doing it the ''wrong'' way and wasting my time. Not that it refrains me from the woodshed, but it kinda sucks to have that feeling whenever you pick up the horn. I Am tired of being told by one that this works and that it doesn't by another. Has anyone of you got a 100% accurate routine on how to improve sound, range, endurance, flexibility?

P.s : Yes, I have had teachers but as I said, some people have conflicting views and I am stuck in between, wondering who to listen to.



Cola,

The Adam Routine as i do it has been 100% accurate to help improve my sound, range, endurance and flexibility as well as tension. Learn to Blow the leadpipe as taught by Mr Bill Adam. Actually there is nothing to learn when leadpipe buzzing. Blow air (don't buzz it) through your mouthpiece with your lips close together as in "POO" or "FOO" for a breath attack
and then insert it into your leadpipe while still blowing the air, without the tuning slide in. It should resonate freely. It should really vibrate and your lips should tingle inside the cup of your mouthpiece. This is what all your notes should "feel" like, When you achieve a vibrant buzz on your leadpipe your on your way. It really is that simple. But save yourself the trouble of trying to figure all this out for yourself, take Billy B up on him finding you a teacher in your area who will "show" you how to do it. Don't waste valuable time trying to figure it out. 3 years and 3 hours a day don't add up to high G on the staff in my opinion. something is amiss i suspect.

talk to Billy B and get your playing to the next level,

Good Luck with your efforts in music,

regards,

tom
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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be easier to list a few things that are definitely bad. Like another poster on here, I'm onto my 3rd or 4th embouchure over 25 years. And I went to a famous (junior) college and had trumpet playing teachers up to age 18. None of them taught embouchure though.

Some things that are definitely a Bad Thing:

* head pressure / dizziness / passing out
* scar tissue forming on red of the lip
* bleeding of the lips
* hemorrhoids (you know where!)
* tension / pain in throat

You can get pretty far with a lot of problems on trumpet. With my peers at school and college we never talked about these things - it was competitive and you just didn't open up. Maybe it was just me with all the problems but I was one of the better player so I imagine some of the others were also struggling with physical problems of their own.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, we have a HS student here, who is admitting he is not following his teacher's advice, there seems to be (in his teacher's eyes) an embouchure issue, and he wants certainty, closed loop solutions and guarantees. Read the comments, and refrain from thinking of what advice you can give for a second...

HE is not following his teacher's advice, and is repeatedly saying he wants it all NOW...

Even with the best advice, multiple suggestions, using Stamp, Adam, Irons, the Oatley solution, etc. etc. he is not going to get there if he is in such a hurry.

One of my students is in the middle of resetting his chops, in order to go from a reasonable player in his town, to a really good one. But at the moment, they has limited range, limited endurance, a far better sound, easier flexibility, and crystal clear articulation. PLUS, they is exhibiting some patience, willingness to forego this year's eisteddfod merry-go-round of events and builds his/her playing.

(This kid does not live in Quebec, or Oatley!)

different light, different answer, we don't even need to write it down...

cheers

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Pops
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range issues are usually strength, tongue arch only by anchor tonguing, breath support, breathing....

Most players WASTE all of their strength long before they need to use it and so they get nowhere.

Movement INDUCED by Anchor Tonguing (whistle) plays the first 2 octaves of the horn. There is almost no facial strength needed and if it is used then it is wasted.

IF you use the strength down low then what do you have left to use to go up?


To assist range and rest the face some so it doesn't do ALL of the work; then you need to use the tongue in an arch and a hiss.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com/arch.html


You also need to focus the embouchure and give the right support for the right register. Meaning a Lip Setpoint is vital.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com/improve.html

Pictures of a low pressure way to hold and play the trumpet are on my facebook page.
http://www.facebook.com/trumpetcollege


Sometimes thinking about what the lips do and don't do helps.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com/works1.html


And lastly make sure that you are NOT messing up the embouchure when you take a breath. Many people do.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com/breath.html
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E. Denecke
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buckle down and record everything. Every time you play hit the record button and you be able to acknowledge your strengths and weaknesses. Not just what others tell you, but what your own ears hear. THEN you can start to move forward
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