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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 730 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: Endurance |
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I am a comeback player 3 years in after a necessary 14 year layoff. One of the first issues that I ran into was endurance or lack thereof. I would get tired well before I practiced the material that I wanted to and, most importantly, needed to. I began breaking my daily total practice time into 4 equal sessions, at first 15 minutes each with a minimum of 1/2 hour rest time in between sessions. Over a period of a week or two of practicing in this manner, I gradually raised the time to two 1/2 hour sessions with a minimum of 1/2 hour between sessions. The rest period between sessions has proven critical for me to build stamina. I can now practice the things that are needed without running out of gas part way through. A good, solid hour of effective and enjoyable daily practice has proven invaluable for me. This has worked very well in increasing my endurance to practice the necessary rudiments to get my playing back in order and, as an unexpected plus, also helped me in attaining a working range back to what it had been when I was a much younger player, effectively turning back the clock. _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I have been playing now for 14 months after a 50 year hiatus, and yeah, endurance is the hardest. I was in my teens and twenties when I played in the 50s and 60s and I swear I had lips of iron. Well at 81, the lips are definitely not made of iron. My endurance has come a long way since the spring of 2016, and I have survived a concert or two with the band, but I am still working on it. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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You may do it already, but try resting the same amount that you play during the practice time. You would be surprised how much ground you can cover before starting to wear down. It also gives you a chance to think about what you have just played and what you are going to play next. Hope you are enjoying your comeback. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 730 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: Endurance |
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gwood66 wrote: | You may do it already, but try resting the same amount that you play during the practice time. You would be surprised how much ground you can cover before starting to wear down. It also gives you a chance to think about what you have just played and what you are going to play next. Hope you are enjoying your comeback. |
Thank you for bringing this approach to mind for me. My first Trumpet Teacher in college made a similar recommendation decades ago and I had forgotten about it after so many years have gone by. As I recall now, he even had me apply this in my warm-up routine. This technique worked very well for me way back then and I'm sure that it will get the endurance results that I am looking for by applying it again. Thanks for the reminder. I will begin using this approach right away! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Endurance |
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cbtj51 wrote: |
Thank you for bringing this approach to mind for me. My first Trumpet Teacher in college made a similar recommendation decades ago and I had forgotten about it after so many years have gone by. As I recall now, he even had me apply this in my warm-up routine. This technique worked very well for me way back then and I'm sure that it will get the endurance results that I am looking for by applying it again. Thanks for the reminder. I will begin using this approach right away! |
Let us know how you make out. I try to rest as much as I play but I am still working on bettering my endurance. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 730 Location: SE US
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Endurance |
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GeorgeB wrote: |
Let us know how you make out. I try to rest as much as I play but I am still working on bettering my endurance. |
I had an extra long practice session today after an earlier 15 minute Warm-up with a 15 minute break afterward. Then 2+ hours, working on music for an upcoming 4th of July (2 one hour performances with a short break between each). The parts alternate between 1st and 2nd. None of the segments are very demanding range wise (a few High Cs tops) but horn on the face pretty much all the way through. I practiced using my Silent Brass with my iPad attached so I could play along with the YouTube videos after practicing the more difficult passages and transitions to all key changes. I played through each movement, taking an equal amount of break time to listen to the next movement. This worked very well for me and I felt like I could have gone a lot longer, but I do still have a Life (Wife) that has a different set of demands. I plan to take the same approach for the next several days (Tropical Storm Cindy is bringing us tons of rain and a little wind for the next several days as well so, I'm at home and inside). I have a very demanding 90 minute performance next Sunday afternoon with a Concert Band in a nearby city that needs a little woodshedding as well (Barnum and Bailey's Favorite is one of the pieces played at breakneck speed), so tomorrow's practice session will be a little longer and more demanding. My teenage Grandson (also a Trumpet Player) is here visiting from St. Louis, MO so we plan on playing thru a few duets together as well. Ain't Retirement grand!!! The breaks throughout the practice sessions seem to be working effectively so far! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10205 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience, maximizing endurance involves:
Daily practice in relatively short sessions that you lengthen over time until you to reach your goal whether it's staying fresh for a concert band program or for three sets of big band section playing.
An effective warmup with rewarming for every playing session.
Carefull application of good trumpet breathing.
Using every opportunity when you are playing to get the horn off your face if only for moments. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 730 Location: SE US
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I followed the same routine as yesterday covering the same material but with a more intense focus on the details. My chops seemed stronger today. I didn't really even think about much else than playing for accuracy and producing a good sound. I am not tired at all and could easily have gone much longer, but I had accomplished what I set out to do today. This session was enjoyable!!! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:33 am Post subject: |
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jhatpro wrote: | Using every opportunity when you are playing to get the horn off your face if only for moments. |
Oh, yeah, very very important. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Usedtobegood Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 442 Location: Cary, IL
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Taking a day off the horn every now and then has always helped me... |
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Bert Falcone Regular Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 18 Location: Schenectady New York
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I think rest in between practice is essential to building chops. Play 20 minutes, rest 20 minutes. Do this 6-7 times throughout the day and it makes a difference. Clark Technical, Stamp daily routine, Schlossberg, Colin, Etudes, Arban's is the way to go. Also- spend some time playing fun stuff like Jamey Abersold, etc. _________________ German made Destino *3* gold plated
1932 NY Bach Strad
1936 Keefer Brua
1940 NY Bach ML
1945 French Besson Meha
1978 Benge 1X
1950 Martin C
2008 Selmer Concept Flugel |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10205 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Another thought:
I suspect a lot of endurance problems are the result of incorrect horn angle due to band directors telling players to "get your bell up." Unfortunately, this means some players are going to have to blow harder to compensate for the fact that they are not sending their airstream directly into the lead pipe.
If you haven't checked your airstream angle you can do it by simply holding your hand vertically a few inches from your face and blow as if you were blowing out a candle.
The angle from your lips to the spot on your hand where the airstream hits is your correct horn angle.
Another way to test this is to use the method demonstrated on the Web by Charlie Porter. He says place your horn just below your lower lip and blow. Raise the bell until you start making a good tone. This is your correct horn angle.
Try some etudes or tunes with this new angle and see if it doesn't seem easier, give you a couple of extra steps of range, and - most importantly enable you to make a better, richer, more resonant sound.
As for those band directors who want you to raise your bell, keep your new angle but play to the side of your stand. When they hear your "new" sound they'll change their tune. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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