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Bach 3C vs Bach Mt. Vernon 10 1/2 C


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musicmork
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Bach 3C vs Bach Mt. Vernon 10 1/2 C Reply with quote

I have been using a Bach 3C mouthpiece on all my trumpets and cornets. I sold my flugel but I used a 3C for it as well.

Sooooooo....to make a long story short.....I'll get right to the point. I've had some major dental issues and could no longer use my upper partial denture. I still have my two front teeth but I lose a lot of air because of gaps where teeth should be. My chops were getting sloppy and weak from not playing. Well, recently I decided to try again to play. I was back on my Bach 3C and sounded like I was in training band back in 7th grade. Lots of airy notes, clams, you name it. I looked over all my old mouthpieces and saw an old Bach Mt. Vermon 10 1/2C with a very out of round shank. I popped it in my horn and Oh My....what a change in articulation and ease of play. I tried it on many trumpets and it was by far so much sweeter to play on than my old trusty 3C. I also have a Schilke 13a4a that I would use once in a while....but this old 10 1/2C is going to be my new go to mp. Any thoughts?
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a MV (or maybe it was NY) 10.5C that I found in the shop at ACB when I worked there with a diameter of a 1.5C.

Most trumpet mouthpieces have very little actual difference in size. If it works, don't fix it!

After dental surgery it would make sense that your needs would change
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Competely agree with the above - if it works, go with it!

(If the shank is that badly damaged, I'd consider taking/sending it to a decent shop to get it straightened out)

Odds are if the smaller piece is going to work for you then trying to use something much bigger would be an uphill battle.


As noted above, though, sometimes old pieces can vary quite a bit in size - renovated pieces in particular (given that you don't know whether they were a large or small example to begin with, plus it's possible that material is removed during the process, all depends how good the person doing the work is!).
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have a Mt.V 10-1/2C and it was really small, much smaller (diameter and depth) than the later Elkhart 10-1/2C that I also had at the time. Anyway, like TKSop said, if it works, use it!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you found a mouthpiece that works for you. Keep using it!

Cheers,

John Mohan
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several years ago, I was trying several new and used Bach 10.5 mouthpieces at a local music store. (I don't remember the various eras of the used ones.)

However, I was really surprised to find that not one was like any other. There were variations in depth, diameter, and rim shape.

(I also tried a Curry, which was the most narrow of them all.)
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Hnelldor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Mt Vernon 10 1/2 and one from the earlier New York era. Interestingly the MV is smaller in diameter and has a thicker rim, while the earlier piece feels a hair bigger than modern 10 1/2's, and with a flatter rim.
I love picking up the older Bach pieces, there's so much history behind them

Glad you found a piece that works for you now!

-Nick
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hnelldor wrote:
I have a Mt Vernon 10 1/2 and one from the earlier New York era. Interestingly the MV is smaller in diameter and has a thicker rim, while the earlier piece feels a hair bigger than modern 10 1/2's, and with a flatter rim.
I love picking up the older Bach pieces, there's so much history behind them

Glad you found a piece that works for you now!

-Nick


And they're all "one of a kind."
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a M.V. Bach 10 1/2C off ebay awhile back for 10 dollars. They usually go for that. It's a great mouthpiece. Like Bach says ,"Sparkling highs and resonant lows..."
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll echo what some others have said - if it's working, keep using it. Changes to your teeth and lips can necessitate the need for a different sized mouthpiece.

One of the most famous and well-known examples is Bud Herseth. As legend and lore has it, he played on a "beginner" 7C until his chops got messed up in a car wreck, whereupon he moved to bigger equipment to accommodate the shift his chops went through. He had to go bigger, but in your case it's helping to go smaller - go with what works.
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musicmork
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I bought a secont Mt. Vernon Bach 10 1/2 C trumpet mouthpiece to compare with the one I currenly have. I'm not going to abandon my 3C entirely. I will still use it...as well as my Schilke 13a4a. I have about five other older Bach mouthpieces as well that I've not tried yet. When I do, I'll be glad to share my thoughts with you.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're on a "for fun" little safari, it's worth trying to track down an NY7c or earlier Mt Vernon 7c - they're nothing like the current 7c, very nice pieces indeed.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
I'll echo what some others have said - if it's working, keep using it. Changes to your teeth and lips can necessitate the need for a different sized mouthpiece.

One of the most famous and well-known examples is Bud Herseth. As legend and lore has it, he played on a "beginner" 7C until his chops got messed up in a car wreck, whereupon he moved to bigger equipment to accommodate the shift his chops went through. He had to go bigger, but in your case it's helping to go smaller - go with what works.


Before his accident caused him to have to move to the Bach 1 diameter (usually using a 1B), Adolph Herseth preferred the 7B over the 7C. From the ITG Interview Article Adolph Herseth: In a Class by Himself:


https://s25.postimg.org/no9ewjtxr/Adolph_Herseth_7_B.jpg
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
trickg wrote:
I'll echo what some others have said - if it's working, keep using it. Changes to your teeth and lips can necessitate the need for a different sized mouthpiece.

One of the most famous and well-known examples is Bud Herseth. As legend and lore has it, he played on a "beginner" 7C until his chops got messed up in a car wreck, whereupon he moved to bigger equipment to accommodate the shift his chops went through. He had to go bigger, but in your case it's helping to go smaller - go with what works.


Before his accident caused him to have to move to the Bach 1 diameter (usually using a 1B), Adolph Herseth preferred the 7B over the 7C. From the ITG Interview Article Adolph Herseth: In a Class by Himself:


https://s25.postimg.org/no9ewjtxr/Adolph_Herseth_7_B.jpg


I believe the Schilke #11, which was originally a model H, meaning "Herseth".
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a guy who was studying trumpet at university and his teacher told him to get a 1 1/2C mouthpiece. SO he went and bought one and used it successfully all year till he sat next to me in an orchestra and I asked him why he was playing on such a small mouthpiece. It was a 10 1/2C! Must have been in the wrong box. His teacher never noticed. There you go.
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HarryRichardson
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like big mouthpieces for myself, but in the end, if it works for you, use it. That's the most important determining factor.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach 3C vs Bach Mt. Vernon 10 1/2 C Reply with quote

musicmork,
What was your final decision regarding the Bach 10 1/2C mouthpiece? How did it work for you? I know this is an old thread.
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AnthonyinVT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Bach 3C vs Bach Mt. Vernon 10 1/2 C Reply with quote

plankowner110 wrote:
musicmork,
What was your final decision regarding the Bach 10 1/2C mouthpiece? How did it work for you? I know this is an old thread.


I think when you talk Bach 10 1/2C, you have to try and identify which one, as they are very different. I grew up playing a Bach 10 1/2C MV produced from 1960 to 1964. Small inner diameter, flat comfortable rim, comfortable. I stopped playing for four decades and picked up my trumpet again two years ago. I thought I would try a different 10 1/2C. The 10 1/2 C CORPS, 1965-1969 are much larger, different rim, not as comfortable for me. The 10 1/2C MV produced from 1953 - 1959 are close to the CORP model, slightly smaller but with a similar rim. I picked up a couple of MV 7C's, 1960-1964 and the rim shape and cup depth, cup angle seems to me to be just like the 10 1/2C of the same period, just larger, so I moved up to the 7C and am enjoying playing with it. I have a couple of CORP 7C's. Don't like them at all. Sharp bite, not at all comfortable for me. I guess there is a reason why the Mount Vernon mouthpieces are still sought after by some.
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Last edited by AnthonyinVT on Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
I'll echo what some others have said - if it's working, keep using it. Changes to your teeth and lips can necessitate the need for a different sized mouthpiece.


This is so true. During college as a music major I played on a Stork 2C and GR 67M2, both of which were around a 1.5 C. Since graduating sixteen years ago, I've downsized to a 3C, then 5C, and now, after a significant layoff, I'm starting back on a 7C...just like my beginners. We have to adapt to our current situation and not try to force something that's not the best route.
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Bach 3C vs Bach Mt. Vernon 10 1/2 C Reply with quote

AnthonyinVT wrote:
plankowner110 wrote:
musicmork,
What was your final decision regarding the Bach 10 1/2C mouthpiece? How did it work for you? I know this is an old thread.


I think when you talk Bach 10 1/2C, you have to try and identify which one, as they are very different. I grew up playing a Bach 10 1/2C MV produced from 1960 to 1964. Small inner diameter, flat comfortable rim, comfortable. I stopped playing for four decades and picked up my trumpet again two years ago. I thought I would try a different 10 1/2C. The 10 1/2 C CORPS, 1965-1969 are much larger, different rim, not as comfortable for me. The 10 1/2C MV produced from 1953 - 1959 are close to the CORP model, slightly smaller but with a similar rim. I picked up a couple of MV 7C's, 1960-1964 and the rim shape and cup depth, cup angle seems to me to be just like the 10 1/2C of the same period, just larger, so I moved up to the 7C and am enjoying playing with it. I have a couple of CORP 7C's. Don't like them at all. Sharp bite, not at all comfortable for me. I guess there is a reason why the Mount Vernon mouthpieces are still sought after by some.


The original poster, musicmork, specified that it was a Mount Vernon 10 1/2C.
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