Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject:
There are no rules, Jim. Depends on the song and the player. Standard is the chorus (by the book). But really, start the song with the chorus, flip the order, add in a improv section, play with it, make it interesting, don't sound like every other band. Have fun. _________________ Richard
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject:
Coincidence: I just happened to see this video a few week's ago. It's about collective improvisation in New Orleans jazz. Not exactly your question, but it should give you some good ideas.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:28 am Post subject:
Many of my songs are patchwork affairs with trading fours, eights or even just switching lead every two measures with the other horn doing backup. I sit with the music and hear all this go on in my head and then try and get the guys to do it. That's the difficult, cat herding, frustrating and challenging part of this. They don't live, eat and breath this music. I send them videos all the time to get it in their heads and still..... I keep waiting for the band to quit on me or me just fire them all. Hopefully your crew has your passion. Best wishes. _________________ Richard
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 355 Location: Maryland, USA
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:05 am Post subject:
Maybe this is all too obvious, but, as for all the intricate switching around, short of genetic cloning:
If you're a band that plays exclusively by ear, what's needed is a heavy dose of rehearsal repetition and, on the bandstand, hand and eye signals.
If you're a reading band, the switching around needs to be noted on everybody's music.
If you're a play-by-ear band you might start with the details noted on the music and later, once it's ingrained in everyone's head, you can discard the printed music.
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Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:39 am Post subject:
Arranger-Transcriber wrote:
Maybe this is all too obvious, but, as for all the intricate switching around, short of genetic cloning:
If you're a band that plays exclusively by ear, what's needed is a heavy dose of rehearsal repetition and, on the bandstand, hand and eye signals.
If you're a reading band, the switching around needs to be noted on everybody's music.
If you're a play-by-ear band you might start with the details noted on the music and later, once it's ingrained in everyone's head, you can discard the printed music.
[/list][/list]
This gets a little funny. We are a reading band. Everybody has the basic parts. Here's the funny part. Some people say they remember it all and will have no problems. They do. Some people take my printed instructions and put them next to the music and try to refer to them. Doesn't work. Some people write them on the page in very small print. Yup. They miss the cues also. Some people reproduce my large print obvious directions on my music and still have concentration issues and forget they are supposed to play. I am reminded of turn of the century bands where one guy could read. He would teach the song to the band. It would take hours for one song. The band might know three songs and every gig just play them over and over. _________________ Richard
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:49 am Post subject:
jhatpro wrote:
What's the usual practice on Dixieland solos - solo over the whole form or just the chorus?
The usual practice is that the verse is used either as an intro or once after the chorus (and then usually doesn't occur again) or is omitted entirely, and the blowing occurs entirely on the chorus or, if it exists, the "trio" section.
So, for example, Louis Armstrong and "Potato Head Blues" - in this case, and in the terminology we use regionally, it's an ensemble of chorus, then trumpet verse, then solos over the chorus changes (with a little four-bar banjo interlude before trumpet) and an ensemble 2nd half chorus to take it out:
This is actually a little complicated arrangement for an example, it was just one that jumped into my head...
But far more common (if the verse is played) is for it to get played at the top and that's it. At least that's been the case with most of the bands with whom I've played this style of music. Even more common to omit the verse entirely (much as we do when playing most of the American songbook in an instrumental jazz setting), as those verses are usually pretty forgettable... _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject:
We're making progress. We're a reading band that uses Real Dixieland lead sheets. We play the verse and chorus with one of the horns leading, the others adding ornaments, then take turns soloing over the chorus with the tuba providing the bass line.
What takes time is getting the hang of adding arpeggios, passing tones, etc. when one of the horns is leading. As in so many genres, we're learning that less is more. _________________ Jim Hatfield
[quote="jhatpro"]We're making progress. We're a reading band that uses Real Dixieland lead sheets. We play the verse and chorus with one of the horns leading, the others adding ornaments, then take turns soloing over the chorus with the tuba providing the bass line.
What takes time is getting the hang of adding arpeggios, passing tones, etc. when one of the horns is leading. As in so many genres, we're learning that less is more.[/quote]
If you're still checking in jhatpro, for a simple response mine is to the most part just the chorus.
You're obviously in early sages of jazz playing, and it's best to simplify things.
The majority of solos are done over the chorus, and besides that, verses are quite often more complicated chord wise.
My jazz began with dixieland when I was 15. Luckily at that age we could develop slowly. My playing improved greatly when I gained more harmonic awareness in the progressions, and started copying a few licks from recordings.
All the best,
Rob _________________ Currently staff arranger for the band of the South Australia Police.
Berklee College of Music, Elder Conservatorium Adelaide, Australia.
For some great trumpet and band music please visit piglet music.com. Grab some free music there!
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject:
"Dixieland is Jazz in it's purest form."
Warren W. Vache Sr.
Mr. Vache was a jazz musician (string bass), charter Board member of the New Jersey Jazz Society, jazz writer, and the father of two world-class musicians, Warren Vache, Jr. and Allen Vache. _________________ Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music
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