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Akis94
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
Location: greece
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: Help for new mouthpiece !!! |
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Hello 
I need your help and advices !!!
I play on a Yamaha 4335G more than 10 years now, with the 11B4 and i'm currently studying trumpet in Bulgaria/Plovdiv in the Music academy.
To my problem now....
The last year , sometimes i have the feeling that the mouthpiece doesn't fit me anymore so good, i think it's too small. And i always have problems with my low tones.
I was thinking to go to a 14B4-GP, with a little bigger rimm but also a little shallow. but i'll try also a few others....
I was thinking to buy these:
Yamaha 14B4
Bach 3C
Shilke 13B or 14B
Yamaha 13B4
What do you mean?
Thank you |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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To limit your variables I'd probably recommend initially staying with the stock Yamaha pieces. See if the larger B cups help. I play the 14F4 for flugel and 11B4 for piccolo, and I used to play the 14B4 for the Bb. I found it very easy to transition between all of these. Once you are comfortable with the size you might try the C cup to see if that responds better for you.
FWIW I'm not a fan of the GP series.
My favorite playing piece (sound and response) is the Bach 1.5C. But I prefer a slightly smaller rim.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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burnhamd
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2016
Posts: 71
Location: Greenfield, TN.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Mouthpiece |
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Akis94,
What part doesn't feel right, is it the rim, cup etc., In my humble opinion, you need to lock in on a rim contour, and diameter that you are comfortable with. Have you changed your embouchure or jaw movement when seating your mouthpiece?
Dan
_________________
Callet Jazz Gen. II www.callet.com
Getzen Eterna Bobby Herriot Model
MF Holton LT-302
MF Holton LT-306
MF Holton ST-307
Cheap Flugel
www.danburnham.com |
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Akis94
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
Location: greece
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the rim, it's comfortable on my lips, but when i play low notes or generally not high, sometimes i feel it a little bit too small... |
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burnhamd
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2016
Posts: 71
Location: Greenfield, TN.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: Mouthpiece |
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Akis94,
Ok, I'm not expert by any means but it sounds like there could be a couple of things going on.
1. As you loosen your lips to play lower you could be putting more lip inside the cup. On mouthpieces with A and B cups it is sometimes easier to bottom out where it is more difficult to do that on a C cup. I am referencing Schilke system of measuring cup depth.
2. I'm not familiar with Yamaha mouthpieces but the angle of slope going from the rim to the cup could also play a factor.
Suggestions:
You know you like the rim contour. So if you can get the next size up with the same rim contour. I looked at Yamaha's chart and they skip around quite a bit.
Here is the Yamaha Link:
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=55190
The problem is there is not a next size up like 12B4 for you to try. They do offer a 13B4 which is going to be a bigger diameter. Your current mouthpiece is equivalent to a Bach 7D. The 13B4 would be equivalent to a Bach 6C.
You've got to find Rim and diameter that fits you. Once you find that then you can work from there regarding cup depth. Finding the right fit is like finding a pair of shoes. If they don't fit right you won't wear them. Also, you may have to look at a different mouthpiece manufacture that can accommodate incremental changes to get the right fit for you. I wish you well in finding the right mouthpiece.
Dan
_________________
Callet Jazz Gen. II www.callet.com
Getzen Eterna Bobby Herriot Model
MF Holton LT-302
MF Holton LT-306
MF Holton ST-307
Cheap Flugel
www.danburnham.com |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | To my problem now....
The last year , sometimes i have the feeling that the mouthpiece doesn't fit me anymore so good, i think it's too small. And i always have problems with my low tones. |
Every time I get this feeling, it usually means I've altered my method in a way that is not good. The feeling goes away when I correct the issue with me. I've got a drawer full of solutions that weren't the answer.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2326
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Yes, try the 14B4-GP or standard 14B4.. both excellent designs. The rim and cup are supposed to be the same, the GP also has a slightly larger backbore-a bit free-er blowing. I used them both for many years and have had many students that found them to be comfortable, playable and suitable for a wide variety of situations.
Both are deep enough to support a good all-around tone (including the low end) and the upper register. I don't like the C cup versions of the 14 series, I've found the "feel" of the rim to have much more bite.
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| It's very close to impossible to give an advice to a question like this only based on some words on the internet. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Help for new mouthpiece !!! |
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| Akis94 wrote: | Hello
I need your help and advices !!!
I play on a Yamaha 4335G more than 10 years now, with the 11B4 and i'm currently studying trumpet in Bulgaria/Plovdiv in the Music academy.
To my problem now....
The last year , sometimes i have the feeling that the mouthpiece doesn't fit me anymore so good, i think it's too small. And i always have problems with my low tones.
I was thinking to go to a 14B4-GP, with a little bigger rimm but also a little shallow. but i'll try also a few others....
I was thinking to buy these:
Yamaha 14B4
Bach 3C
Shilke 13B or 14B
Yamaha 13B4
What do you mean?
Thank you |
Hi Akis94
Welcome to the forum.
I feel that your low note issues are more likely to be owing to technique issues or insufficient use of the slides, leading to you lipping notes down to the extent that they are not quite centred. In this regard, I am referring to the low D and C# in particular.
However, it wouldn't in my opinion hurt to try another mouthpiece. Since you have a Yamaha trumpet, I'd suggest sticking to Yamaha mouthpieces. The 14B4 would probably be the one to try, as it has a little larger cup diameter than the 11B4.
Take care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Akis94
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
Location: greece
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your fast answers
I'm playing exercises for my low tones, and i think it'll be better with time, but maybe with a liittle bit larger rim it'll be easier...
What i mean, is that i have the feeling that my lips want to go out (from the rim) sometimes. Especially with low tones...
And so, after time, i was thinking to try something larger, i was thinking about the 14B4, but i will try also the same size from some other brands just to see how they sit on my lips... |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Akis94 wrote: | Thank you for your fast answers
Hi Akis94
You are very welcome.
I'm playing exercises for my low tones, and i think it'll be better with time, but maybe with a liittle bit larger rim it'll be easier...
Possibly.
What i mean, is that i have the feeling that my lips want to go out (from the rim) sometimes. Especially with low tones...
This does sound like it may still be a technique issue, and presumably something which you have discussed with your tutor (is your college tutor a trumpeter, or do you also have a private trumpet tutor?). If you haven't, I would strongly suggest this. I'm not really sure whether it could be a sign that a mouthpiece diameter is too small. With me, signs that a mouthpiece is too small, other than it feeling small and cramped, is that flexibility is reduced and note production seems more difficult.
And so, after time, i was thinking to try something larger, i was thinking about the 14B4,
I think that this is an excellent all-around mouthpiece.
but i will try also the same size from some other brands just to see how they sit on my lips...
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the concept of gap, but in my experience of Yamaha trumpets, they require less gap than say a Bach trumpet, and I've had to have my Bach mouthpiece sleeved to replicate the insertion amount/gap of a Yamaha mouthpiece in a Yamaha trumpet, and I feel that sticking to a Yamaha mouthpiece will prevent introducing gap issues.
Best wishes
Lou
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_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Akis94
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
Location: greece
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | Akis94 wrote: | Thank you for your fast answers
Hi Akis94
You are very welcome.
I'm playing exercises for my low tones, and i think it'll be better with time, but maybe with a liittle bit larger rim it'll be easier...
Possibly.
What i mean, is that i have the feeling that my lips want to go out (from the rim) sometimes. Especially with low tones...
This does sound like it may still be a technique issue, and presumably something which you have discussed with your tutor (is your college tutor a trumpeter, or do you also have a private trumpet tutor?). If you haven't, I would strongly suggest this. I'm not really sure whether it could be a sign that a mouthpiece diameter is too small. With me, signs that a mouthpiece is too small, other than it feeling small and cramped, is that flexibility is reduced and note production seems more difficult.
And so, after time, i was thinking to try something larger, i was thinking about the 14B4,
I think that this is an excellent all-around mouthpiece.
but i will try also the same size from some other brands just to see how they sit on my lips...
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the concept of gap, but in my experience of Yamaha trumpets, they require less gap than say a Bach trumpet, and I've had to have my Bach mouthpiece sleeved to replicate the insertion amount/gap of a Yamaha mouthpiece in a Yamaha trumpet, and I feel that sticking to a Yamaha mouthpiece will prevent introducing gap issues.
Best wishes
Lou
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Thank you very much |
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amuk
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting subject.
How are your medium to high range coming out? If you're playing 1st trumpet parts it sees like there's very little written below concert F (first space in the staff). If you're worrying about about getting down around the lower ledger lines in the staff, how often do you have to play them?
I know it's great to have three octaves or more to work with but be realistic. If you really need those lower notes then maybe you need a new mouthpiece so you don't bottom out as easily. In real life maybe it's best to go with what works well for you in the predominate range in which you play. For the few low notes that occasionally crop up you can probably do a work-around like playing up an octave or pulling your mouth corners back a bit on the low notes to avoid the too-much-lip in the cup syndrome. You can treat it as a mechanical-sonic problem sort of like using you sides to compensate for pitch problems in trumpets ( in general).
Just another viewpoint not to confuse the situation. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Akis94 wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | | Akis94 wrote: | Thank you for your fast answers
Hi Akis94
You are very welcome.
I'm playing exercises for my low tones, and i think it'll be better with time, but maybe with a liittle bit larger rim it'll be easier...
Possibly.
What i mean, is that i have the feeling that my lips want to go out (from the rim) sometimes. Especially with low tones...
This does sound like it may still be a technique issue, and presumably something which you have discussed with your tutor (is your college tutor a trumpeter, or do you also have a private trumpet tutor?). If you haven't, I would strongly suggest this. I'm not really sure whether it could be a sign that a mouthpiece diameter is too small. With me, signs that a mouthpiece is too small, other than it feeling small and cramped, is that flexibility is reduced and note production seems more difficult.
And so, after time, i was thinking to try something larger, i was thinking about the 14B4,
I think that this is an excellent all-around mouthpiece.
but i will try also the same size from some other brands just to see how they sit on my lips...
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the concept of gap, but in my experience of Yamaha trumpets, they require less gap than say a Bach trumpet, and I've had to have my Bach mouthpiece sleeved to replicate the insertion amount/gap of a Yamaha mouthpiece in a Yamaha trumpet, and I feel that sticking to a Yamaha mouthpiece will prevent introducing gap issues.
Best wishes
Lou
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Thank you very much |
You are very welcome.
Take care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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zaferis
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2326
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | It's very close to impossible to give an advice to a question like this only based on some words on the internet. |
True, but we can narrow the field of choices for the mouthpiece safari..
A logical first step without being in the same room with a player and a box of mouthpieces is to go a touch larger with a comparable mouthpiece..
You're playing a Yamaha 11 but want a little more sound, control, and a well rounded bottom to top range.. Yamaha 14B4 standard or GP is a good first step and won't cost you a ton of money.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | delano wrote: | | It's very close to impossible to give an advice to a question like this only based on some words on the internet. |
True, but we can narrow the field of choices for the mouthpiece safari..
A logical first step without being in the same room with a player and a box of mouthpieces is to go a touch larger with a comparable mouthpiece..
You're playing a Yamaha 11 but want a little more sound, control, and a well rounded bottom to top range.. Yamaha 14B4 standard or GP is a good first step and won't cost you a ton of money. |
I fully agree.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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B. Scriver
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1204
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Send me an email if you wish:
grmouthpieces@gmail.com
I will email you our playing tests. You can video yourself, we will check it out and make some suggestions. Thanks!
Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com |
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Akis94
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
Location: greece
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| B. Scriver wrote: | Send me an email if you wish:
grmouthpieces@gmail.com
I will email you our playing tests. You can video yourself, we will check it out and make some suggestions. Thanks!
Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com |
Thank you !!!
But i haven't buy them yet, i'll buy them next month, so i can't send you a video yet... |
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