Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
You didn't pay attention to the whole question. It wasn't "if you have trouble playing higher than a G on the staff will a Reynolds ERA give you range?" It started with the premise that you already have decent range.
Again, this was your whole question:
Robert P wrote:
What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype?
That doesn't contain any nuance about mouthpieces or already having a decent range or anything else at all. You didn't add anything further until later in the thread after I had already responded with "well, it's not a magic fix." I responded to the question that you asked. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Some people write the Subject header as if it's part of the body of the post. Some people read the body of the post, and don't consider the Subject header to be part of the actual post. It causes confusion when these two posting/reading styles collide. Putting the entire message in the body of the post is a more reliable way of making a point. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject:
mm55 wrote:
Some people write the Subject header as if it's part of the body of the post. Some people read the body of the post, and don't consider the Subject header to be part of the actual post. It causes confusion when these two posting/reading styles collide. Putting the entire message in the body of the post is a more reliable way of making a point.
True. I guess I hadn't considered it from that angle. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject:
No clue. But I'm playing a cornet and a mouthpiece that by far gives me the best range and sound. Life is easy with this combination. They haven't made the mouthpiece for 50-60 years and the cornet is from the early 60's. I'm not going to tell you anything about the mouthpiece or cornet. That would mean I can't find a replacement for either. I've done searches for the mouthpiece and can't find any mention of it. Sorry. Okay, the mouthpiece is a Conn but that's the most I will say. Good luck. _________________ Richard
That would mean I can't find a replacement for either. I've done searches for the mouthpiece and can't find any mention of it. Sorry. Okay, the mouthpiece is a Conn but that's the most I will say. Good luck.
The Mystic Pizza of cornets - lol.
Why not get some replicas made of the mouthpiece? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
I see about me a breed of players who value screaming out high notes without any attempt or desire to make music and it appalls me.
I agree with you 100% on this point.
I'll wager that you if knew that a particular equipment setup would give you easier, freer, better sounding high range when it's called for and still sounded fine overall you would use it. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
The Olds Custom-CHR is a very bright horn. Olds/Reynolds asked William T Cardwell to design this horn. The Olds CHR and the Reynolds ERA are basically the same trumpet.The instrument in the video is the prototype.
Very interesting and a good demonstration. Do you feel it had an edge over certain pro horns back in the era when it was made? Do you have enough familiarity with Severinsen Eternas to compare them?
I'm not familiar with the 2000hz bell concept. Can you elaborate? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Robert P
Sorry brother I got this wrong the first time but this should tell all.
In this Video I explore the origins of the Olds Custom High Register and Reynolds Extended Range Altissimo Designed by William T. Cardwell for Olds. I demonstrate 4 different bells that have the same intonation characteristic but totally different tone colors. I also compare the Olds CHR to 2 other trumpet designs.
William T. Cardwell has done unparalleled work on trumpet design. He was able to predict and calculate intonation in trumpet design. He backed this up by building a machine to confirm his theories. You can read more in an article by Gary Bast in the ITG Journal Vol 41. No. 1 October 2016
My final conclusion about the Olds CHR is that it does what is was advertised to do. It makes the upper register easier. When I looked at the audio graphs as I edited this video the reinforcement of the higher notes by the brighter (2000hz) bell was quite pronounced. There is evidence in listening as well. Is it easier than other horns of the day? Quite possibly! Is the over all playability better? Well that is debatable but it is not the question asked.
My final conclusion about the Olds CHR is that is does what is was advertised to do. It makes the upper register easier. When I looked at the audio graphs as I edited this video the reinforcement of the higher notes by the brighter (2000hz) bell was quite pronounced. There is evidence in listening as well. Is it easier that other horns of the day? Quite possibly! Is the over all playability better? Well that is debatable but it is not the question asked.
To clarify, which is the bell that's on the production Reynolds ERA? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
I took down my other post to eliminate confusion. The CHR and the ERA are the same horn branded with different manufacturers names. They both were produced with the 2000Hz bell.
It is notated on the video every time the horn is played. It is listed as the 2000HzBellCHR in the lower thirds.
So the 3500Hz bell was never on a production horn?
rufflicks wrote:
I took down my other post to eliminate confusion.
Right - I thought you'd id'd the flatter, 3500Hz bell as being the ERA - I take it that's the part you said you got wrong - apparently just an experimental horn? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Very interesting and a good demonstration. Do you feel it had an edge over certain pro horns back in the era when it was made? Do you have enough familiarity with Severinsen Eternas to compare them?
I'm not familiar with the 2000hz bell concept. Can you elaborate?
The 3500Hz bell was part of a project that olds contracted William Cardwell to produce. They choose the 2000Hz Bell for the production model. The idea was to create an instrument that was easier to play in the upper register. The horn starts to shine from High C on up. The 2000Hz bell proved to produce very strong reinforcement of high overtones in the upper register. This gave the horn a bright sound and it gave the upper register sizzle. The sizzle or bright tone enhanced the projection of the upper register. With the increased sizzle you could back off and get the same type of sound and projection as a standard bell horn using less energy. Less energy for the same out put translates into an easier upper register.
When you say does it have an edge over certain horns back in the era. Well it certainly has a lot more edge. I will assume that this is not what you are asking. The problem is what do you mean. Is it a better horn? That depends on several things. What are you looking for and what kind of horn do you like. I had a Severinsen Eterna I think the CHR is a little bit better and much brighter. I had a Selmer Radial the CHR is easier in the upper register and a lot brighter. I had an Olds Custom Crafter Clark Terry Model I think the CHR is a bit easier in the upper register and much brighter. I had a Besson Meha Kanstul the CHR is easier in the upper register and brighter. I had a 1950s Olds Super the CHR is easier in the upper register and brighter. I played a pre war Besson, that was one of the nicest horns I have ever played. The CHR is brighter but not going to say it was easier than the pre war Besson. The CHR is easier in the upper register and brighter than every Bach I have played except for one 43 light, light. The CHR is brighter but not easier than that one 43 light, llight. I played an Olds Super Recording the CHR is brighter but not going to say it was easier. The Super Recording reminds me a lot of a Stomvi VRII. Response even blow and intonation are very similar. The Olds Super Recording has such a wonderful old school sweet sound but I would not use it on Salsa gigs.
The CHR/ERA has a unique sound and I think this is also one of the reasons it did not sell well. It is not going to blend as well with other horns. I think it is possible, but the player has to be aware of this when they are playing in a section. The slots are a bit tight and if you do not like that then this is not the horn for you. You need to place the note where the horn says it is. The horn plays nicely in tune but if you like broader slots the CHR and ERA are not for you. This slotting translates into a more compact blow. If you are not an efficient player you will end up fighting the horn and it will not be easier in the upper register. The sound is relatively fine from C in the staff on up but below that the sound suffers.
If you live in a register from C in the staff on up and like bright compact horns with a lot of sizzle then this is a good horn for you. If this is not you then move on. I would strongly recommend a precision valve alignment from a shop that knows how to properly do one. This will make the horn play more even and possibly feel just a bit more open.
The 3500Hz bell was part of a project that olds contracted William Cardwell to produce. They choose the 2000Hz Bell for the production model. The idea was to create an instrument that was easier to play in the upper register.
Excellent info and videos - I appreciate the time and effort you put into it! _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
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