Flugelhorn Model Advice

acroz · New Member Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Posts: 3

I'm a trumpet player interested in getting a flugel, and have been to the shop to try a few out, in particular:

B&S 3145
B&S 3145G (with gold brass bell)
B&S 3146II (Brochon)

I've also been eyeing up some of the Carol Brass horns, in particular the Carol Brass CFL-7200-GSS-Bb-SL "Legendary", which has a fairly unique design.

I enjoy flugels with a rich and warm sound, but not the really 'fluffy' sound that some seem to have.

My question is if anyone has any experience or opinions on these horns or these manufacturers, and how they might fit in with my preferences and the intended main use in a brass band. I'm also curious how the braces on the Carol Brass model metioned above might affect its sound, and if anyone has suggestions of other flugels to look in to in a similar price range (up to ~£1500, preferably available from a European retailer).

I appreciate that similar discussions to this come up regularly on the forum, but I welcome any input you have! This is my first post on trumpetherald, and I look forward to interacting with the community!

GuidoCorona · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:46 am Post subject:

Hi Acroz, the Carolbrass CFL-7200 is in my opinion particularly interesting for a trumpet player: The bore is an intermediate 0.433, and the horns comes with 2 lead pipes.... A standard Yamaha large taper pipe, and a larger one, compatible with trumpet mouthpieces.

Here is an example of 7200 graceful but non-fluffy sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_w2KsKykY

And here is an example of super-fluffy sound.... I suspect that the player might have even inserted a washer into the cup of the mouthpiece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB99Lx_T40c

On the other hand, one can tell on the non-legato transitions that 7200 is capable of some bite.

Besides trumpet mouthpieces, amongst the pieces that I have, I am thinking that an open non-fluffy sound might be achieved with the Curry Fl and even more with Curry Fl-M, GR 66Fl, and the Stork SFL.

Regards, Guido
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

acroz · New Member Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Posts: 3

Hi Guido,

Thanks for the information!

You mention that the Carol Brass comes with the alternate leadpipe that takes trumpet mouthpieces, but my understanding is that the mouthpiece is a major part of what gives the flugel its sound distinctive from the trumpet. Why, then would I wish to use a trumpet mouthpiece with the flugel - so some players like to play it with a trumpet mouthpiece?

Thanks,
Andrew

GuidoCorona · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject:

Hi Andrew, yes you are correct, the mouthpiece is one of the factors that create the totality of the sound of an instrument.... Yet the whole is the product of a lot of component parts... Each of them contributing in a minor or major way to the output. In the end, a flugel will mostly sound like a flugel, no matter what piece you plunk into it.... I should know, I have even used a CUrry P on my flugel, and the marvellous stubborn creature still thinks he's a flugel, and not an Eb cornet *Grins!*

When Doug Teeter started to import the original CarolBrass CFL-6200 series flugels into the US, he specifically requested that the factory included an alternate larger mouthpipe, so that doublers -- folks whose principle instrument is the trumpet, and are seeking the easist possible transition to the flugel -- could also use their beloved trumpet mouthpieces.

I cannot do this on my Kanstul 1525, which has only a small Bach flugel taper.

On the other hand, I do like the principle very much... So much so that I freely use some of my flugel mouthpieces on my short CarolBrass CCR-7772 cornet, and by using an adapter, also on my Adams A4 trumpet.... Some flugel pieces work better than other ones on cornet and/or trumpet. For example I love the cornet Wick 2B and the Curry Fl for flugel on the trumpet. On the other hand, the flugel Griego CS FL is totally amazing on the cornet, yet not so great on the trumpet.

Having said all the above, I just noticed that the various sites I checked do not mention the larger pipe on CFL-7200... I will check with Doug Teeter what the story might be.

Regards, Guido
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

cheiden · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject:

I've never known a flugel to be supplied with a mouth pipe intended to accept trumpet mouthpieces. What I have heard is that there is European flugel shank convention that approximates a trumpet shank.

Bob Reeves mentiones them here:
http://www.bobreeves.com/blog/flugelhorn-mouthpiece-guide/

Mark Curry posted this some time back:
"German 10mm (Tapered shank, similar to a trumpet but about 10 thousandths/inch larger in diameter at the small shank end. Commonly found on Miraphone rotary flugels, also offered with CarolBrass Flugels)"
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

ljazztrm · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject:

I guess it was about a year ago when I was looking for a new flugel. I went on Trent's site and listened to all the sound clips of him playing flugel. The one that sounded best to my ears was the Manchester Brass pro model. Not long after that, I came across one used for a great deal and couldn't pass it up. It is a wonderful axe. Sounds like a really good Couesnon from the 60's. Just beautiful.

Trent didn't have the new Carol flugel when I was checking out clips.. It looks cool and I remember Doug telling me on the phone he worked a lot with Carol on it to make it a really nice horn. Let us know if you get it! Best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

GuidoCorona · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:19 am Post subject:

THank you cheiden for the clarification. I'll try to find out if the Carolbrass CFL-7200 also ships with the alternate German taper pipe like the original CFL-6200 flugel.

G.
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

acroz · New Member Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Posts: 3

Update on my progress:

I went to the shop this afternoon to try out these horns again and I'm converging towards the B&S 3145G (with the gold brass bell). The Carol Brass sounds good too, but is not as much to my taste as the B&S, and having seen it in person I'm not mad about the satin finish.

Going to think it over for a couple of days, but I will likely go with the B&S 3145G.