Proper decorum for orchestra pops concert

Thomas2516 · Regular Member Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Posts: 16

I'm playing a pops concert with my orchestra next week — music from the 70s, including tunes originally recorded by Aerosmith, Madonna, Aretha Franklin, Queen and others. The orchestra is accompanying a group of singers, so we are seldom, if ever, featured.

There are a handful of passages during the evening's program where it is either written as optional 8va or would sound (I think, using a lot of discretion) appropriate in the higher octave.

However, we were given a recording of a better symphony playing these same pieces, and their principal trumpet played everything in the lower octave.

If this were a big band, I would not hesitate to play the higher notes, and if we were playing Mahler or Beethoven, I would not even think about changing the written part this way. Alas, the summer pops 70s concert is neither.

What's the general form on something like this? Are there rules of decorum in orchestra playing that frown on this type of embellishment, or is it in my purview as principal to play any given piece of music in the way I think it ought to be played?

Thanks.

falado · Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject:

Hi, are you rehearsing with the group before the performance? The trick would be playing the optional high notes tastefully and not overpowering or taking attention away from the vocalists. I would check with the conductor and ask him/her how they feel about this. I have done many church things where I was given the thumbs up, but you need to think that this is about the overall performance and if what you do interferes or detracts from the performers, you might want to play it down where written. Taking it up may not make you the hero in this case, but it can definitely make you the goat.
Just some thoughts, Been there, Dave
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kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject:

I don't think there are any "rules". You do what is musically appropriate - your call. A couple of thoughts come to mind, though.

One, hot-dogging in and of itself is uncalled for. There is sometimes a fine line between hot-dogging and added excitement. Taking something up an octave can be fine if the excitement is called for. But just for showing off impresses the superficial - only.

Two, could it be, judging from the "better" orchestra's playing things as-is (no added octaves), that one reason the orchestra is "better" is that the restraint it shows actually reflects better control by its director in having his players doing what they do best and not falling into hot-dogging traps? Like I said, your call.
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Andy Del · Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:22 pm Post subject:

Play it the way you think it should go, and be musical about it... if you get busted and to,d to change, just go with the flow, erase that pencil mark (nudge nudge, wink wink) and enjoy the show.

You can get away with a lot if ou play musically. Just think of al lithe baroque ornamentation one can do, how many times classical style parts are altered, etc.

Cheers

Andy
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american boy · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Posts: 344 Location: ny

A while back,I was playing a summer orchestra that would have different guest conductors,and this particular week Skitch Henderson was the guest conductor.In the program he chose was (I think) the original Ray Nobel arrangement of "Cherokee"It was kind of a 2 beat feel..Anyway,on my part,in the middle of the page,was chord changes.If I remember correctly it was to solo on the whole form of the tune..Anyway, I was sitting there wondering what he expected,and I was thinking I would style it like something like I would hear on a Bert Kampfert album..You know,restate the melody with some light ornamental "jazzy" notes.Fortunately, there was a break before we got to that tune,so I made my way to the podium to try to get an idea of what to play really,and when I asked the Maestro,he looked me in the eye and said "Ever hear of Clark Terry?" We both laughed. Made that solo a lot easier,gotta say.

Usedtobegood · Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:41 am Post subject:

Where it's written 8va, play it, where it isn't, don't unless asked to.

Matthew Anklan · Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:22 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:30 am Post subject:

In retrospect, I'm just curious. When you say "orchestra" do you actually mean a group with string sections, or do you mean "band".

I'm asking because, in other parts other world (Germany for example), "orchestra" can refer to a "band" in the American context.
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Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1960

When I traveled with Doc Severinsen as his pops 1st trumpet, we did mostly jazz oriented programs with the symphony orchestras. Everything on my part was to be played where it was written with few exceptions. The Duke Ellington program had passages written by Tommy Newsom (as recorded by Duke) and the unison triplet section on "Happy Go Lucky Local" was to be played up the octave as recorded by Cat Anderson. We did this program at the Kennedy Center with the orchestra and nobody seemed bothered. On the other hand with the Colorado Orchestra, I made a point of talking to the violas prior to the rehearsal (who were seated in front of me with earplugs and sound shields) saying that I realized what they would hear was no doubt higher and louder than they might like but the guy at the podium wanted me to play like this and they all responded "oh, that's no problem, we love pops". The section consisted of eight violas and when arriving for the gig that night I noticed there were only four violas. Seems like their contract had a maximum sound level in it and they could stay home if it got exceeded. The complete opposite was with the Detroit Symphony. The first trombone was directly in front of me and she turned around to say how much she enjoyed hearing my playing. Not always the case I assure you.

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Jerry · Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:24 am Post subject:

Don't ask.

Play it up where you believe it would sound better taken up. If the conductor doesn't like it, he'll ask you to play it differently.

homebilly · Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject:

louder, higher, faster!
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gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

I did lead pops work with the Detroit Symphony years ago as a ringer. The 8va stuff is 8va stuff. Many orchestral musicians think the act of playing lead trumpet in of itself and "executing" the higher loud parts is a rude, hot dog, show-off activity. Oh well!

DSO musicians where very kind to me. We worked together in the Motown and post-Motown studios. I hired them from time to time for P-Funk sessions. Musicians are like German Shepards. Give them a gig and they will be loyal for life.

But if one of their own "executed" lead trumpet there were comments and the rolling of the eyes. BTW, today many symphonic trumpet players can play very good commercial lead trumpet. They many not want to do it but they can.

Whenever I got comments I would say...."Hey I do not write this stuff"

Good luck,

Gordon Stump P.S. Tony sounded so good with Doc and the DSO. Not the least bit over the top!
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Thomas2516 · Regular Member Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Posts: 16

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate your comments. Fortunately, there are a couple of rehearsals before the performance so I'll have a chance to get a better feel for what may or may not be appropriate. The input I've received here will make a big difference in deciding what I'll do. First and foremost in my mind will be the listener's experience — and that these are listeners who have come to hear people sing, not to hear hot dog trumpet players.

Thomas.