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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derby_mute wrote:
giakara wrote:
Getzen 800S large bore is the standard in the music business the last 50 years.

Regards


It's not the standard for me and for many others. Popular for some perhaps, but there are many different cornets made during the last 50 years that are great playing horns. Some of my favorites during those 50 years are the Benge long model cornet; Selmer k-mod; Blessing Artist; King Master and Silver Sonic, etc. I had a Getzen Eterna in the 1970s and sold it for a King Silver Sonic.


Yeah, I traded cornets with a friend in brass band rehearsal one night. He had an Eterna, but I don't remember what bore size it was. I was not impressed. So far, the best cornet I've played for any length of time is the Conn 9A Victor (although a Besson Prestige I tried out a few years ago seemed very good, too). Too bad the old Conn 9As are so hard to find.
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derby_mute
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
derby_mute wrote:
giakara wrote:
Getzen 800S large bore is the standard in the music business the last 50 years.

Regards


It's not the standard for me and for many others. Popular for some perhaps, but there are many different cornets made during the last 50 years that are great playing horns. Some of my favorites during those 50 years are the Benge long model cornet; Selmer k-mod; Blessing Artist; King Master and Silver Sonic, etc. I had a Getzen Eterna in the 1970s and sold it for a King Silver Sonic.


Yeah, I traded cornets with a friend in brass band rehearsal one night. He had an Eterna, but I don't remember what bore size it was. I was not impressed. So far, the best cornet I've played for any length of time is the Conn 9A Victor (although a Besson Prestige I tried out a few years ago seemed very good, too). Too bad the old Conn 9As are so hard to find.


I owned a 5A at one time but sold it. (I don't get on with larger bore cornets.) The Conn I own and love to play is a 38A Victor Special. A really wonderful horn. Older than 50 years but on a par with any newer horn I own. Not my favorite but in the top 10 of horns I own and keep. My favorite is my 1969 Selmer model 43 (at least right now!)
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been many years since I tried one, but the Blackburn cornet impressed me with it's sweetness of sound. Fit my concept of what a cornet should sound like.

OK - well it is several thousand $.

As to vintage - I never regretted spending 5 or 6 hundred dollars to have a 1921 Conn 80A rebuilt, plated, and aligned. I had many years of playing pleasure from it and it was my go-to horn for small pit orchestras.
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stephen
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
Dale Proctor wrote:
Schilke XA1 and Getzen 3850 are a couple nice ones that are reasonably priced.
YES.

Thirded
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kallen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got my hands on a Yamaha 6330S-II a couple of weeks ago, and am finding it very responsive and easy to play. I have absolutely no prior experience with cornets, and haven't done any comparative testing, so take this for what it's worth, coming from a total cornet novice (and someone who's missing some high-frequency hearing).

This horn can get a wide range of tone colors, depending on the mouthpiece (and on how it's played, of course). I'm finding that a deeper cup (Warburton 4D) works well, without losing range or responsiveness. The shallower cups (even 4MD) take it more toward a trumpet sound. I may check out a 4XD to see if I can take it more toward a fluegelhorn sound.

Played it on some jazz gigs where I would normally use fluegelhorn and trumpet, and liked the way it felt and projected. Works for me.

Kal
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holton c605!!!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallen wrote:
Just got my hands on a Yamaha 6330S-II a couple of weeks ago, and am finding it very responsive and easy to play. I have absolutely no prior experience with cornets, and haven't done any comparative testing, so take this for what it's worth, coming from a total cornet novice (and someone who's missing some high-frequency hearing).

This horn can get a wide range of tone colors, depending on the mouthpiece (and on how it's played, of course). I'm finding that a deeper cup (Warburton 4D) works well, without losing range or responsiveness. The shallower cups (even 4MD) take it more toward a trumpet sound. I may check out a 4XD to see if I can take it more toward a fluegelhorn sound.

Played it on some jazz gigs where I would normally use fluegelhorn and trumpet, and liked the way it felt and projected. Works for me.

Kal


Hi Kal

Congratulations on your new cornet. I haven't personally played the 6330S-II, but I have heard good things about them, and Yamaha cornets are good overall in my opinion.

Take care

Lou
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kallen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:

Congratulations on your new cornet. I haven't personally played the 6330S-II, but I have heard good things about them, and Yamaha cornets are good overall in my opinion.

Take care

Lou


Thanks, Lou. BTW, the published specs of the II model are a little different from the previous 6330S, in that the II is listed as medium weight whereas the previous was lightweight. It does seem to have a little heft to it. Not sure about the leadpipe composition. Previous was gold brass.

One thing I've noticed as a novice cornetist is that the bottom-line E (12 fingering) tends to go sharp very easily. I can usually blow it in tune once I'm completely warmed up and relaxed. Is this a general cornet thing? Something to correct with the first-valve slide? I guess I should spend more time scanning the cornet/fluegelhorn forum.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallen wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:

Congratulations on your new cornet. I haven't personally played the 6330S-II, but I have heard good things about them, and Yamaha cornets are good overall in my opinion.

Take care

Lou


Thanks, Lou.

Hi kallen

You are very welcome.


BTW, the published specs of the II model are a little different from the previous 6330S, in that the II is listed as medium weight whereas the previous was lightweight. It does seem to have a little heft to it. Not sure about the leadpipe composition. Previous was gold brass.

Interesting, thanks. I'm not over knowledgeable about the 6330SII, but it looks like it still has a gold brass leadpipe.

i.e. https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/YCR-6330II-Bb-Cornet/pidYAM-YCR6330II

I've posted a link to the lacquered version, as it shows the gold-brass leadpipe, which obviously you cannot see on a silver-plated cornet.


One thing I've noticed as a novice cornetist is that the bottom-line E (12 fingering) tends to go sharp very easily. I can usually blow it in tune once I'm completely warmed up and relaxed. Is this a general cornet thing?

I don't know really. I have many limitations as a player but am blessed with a good ear for intonation, which results in me automatically correcting notes which aren't quite in tune. Having very small hands and finding operating slide and triggers very difficult, for years I didn't use the first or third slides at all. I finally twigged that my difficulties with getting a nice centred low D were owing to me not using the slides and triggers, and lipping down to the point that the note wasn't sufficiently centred. I still can't reach the 3rd trigger on my Xeno cornet (I can just manage the 3rd slide ring on my trumpet), but can get by with just the first trigger for low D and C#. If bottom E is sharp, which it may very well be, all I can say is that on my cornet it is nowhere near as bad as the D. Compared to my other instruments, my Xeno cornet seems to have a particularly sharp D. Maybe it is just my Xeno.

Something to correct with the first-valve slide?

Yes, definitely.

I guess I should spend more time scanning the cornet/fluegelhorn forum.

I believe that this issue is a combination of the make/model of cornet, the individual cornet, the mouthpiece choice, and the combination of player, mouthpiece and cornet. If you find your combination sharp on bottom E, using the first trigger will hopefully bring it down nicely.

If there is something on the cornet/flugel horn forum about a sharp bottom E, I reckon I ought to read it lol. I've been playing cornet coming up for 23 years, and there is still a lot I don't know. Hopefully my ears know if I don't. Although I jest, seriously if anyone asked for one piece advice on playing the cornet, in fact any instrument, I'd say "use your ears". Clearly you are using yours, since you comment that your E is sharp, but there are players that don't.

Take care and congratulations again on your new cornet.

Lou



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BSTRUMPET85
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an old large bore American style Bach with a 7 bell that I really love but is falling apart. Hub Van Laar is building me a new one that will done in August. When I lived in New Orleans I remember Kevin Clarke with the Dukes of Dixieland also played a large bore Bach his with a 25 bell and last I talked to him he is playing on the new Yamaha Neo.
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kallen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Lou,

Thanks for the informative discussion!

Louise Finch wrote:

Hi kallen

You are very welcome.


BTW, the published specs of the II model are a little different from the previous 6330S, in that the II is listed as medium weight whereas the previous was lightweight. It does seem to have a little heft to it. Not sure about the leadpipe composition. Previous was gold brass.

Interesting, thanks. I'm not over knowledgeable about the 6330SII, but it looks like it still has a gold brass leadpipe.

i.e. https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/YCR-6330II-Bb-Cornet/pidYAM-YCR6330II

I've posted a link to the lacquered version, as it shows the gold-brass leadpipe, which obviously you cannot see on a silver-plated cornet.



The specs look the same as the silver-plated model. The lacquered model is not available in the US.

Louise Finch wrote:

One thing I've noticed as a novice cornetist is that the bottom-line E (12 fingering) tends to go sharp very easily. I can usually blow it in tune once I'm completely warmed up and relaxed. Is this a general cornet thing?

I don't know really. I have many limitations as a player but am blessed with a good ear for intonation, which results in me automatically correcting notes which aren't quite in tune. Having very small hands and finding operating slide and triggers very difficult, for years I didn't use the first or third slides at all. I finally twigged that my difficulties with getting a nice centred low D were owing to me not using the slides and triggers, and lipping down to the point that the note wasn't sufficiently centred. I still can't reach the 3rd trigger on my Xeno cornet (I can just manage the 3rd slide ring on my trumpet), but can get by with just the first trigger for low D and C#. If bottom E is sharp, which it may very well be, all I can say is that on my cornet it is nowhere near as bad as the D. Compared to my other instruments, my Xeno cornet seems to have a particularly sharp D. Maybe it is just my Xeno.

Something to correct with the first-valve slide?

Yes, definitely.

I guess I should spend more time scanning the cornet/fluegelhorn forum.

I believe that this issue is a combination of the make/model of cornet, the individual cornet, the mouthpiece choice, and the combination of player, mouthpiece and cornet. If you find your combination sharp on bottom E, using the first trigger will hopefully bring it down nicely.


Right, intonation depends on the combination of player (including variable condition of chops), mouthpiece (including cup, throat and backbore), and horn. I often find myself having to lip low-register notes in tune. My fluegelhorn doesn't have a third-valve trigger, so I'm used to doing that on low D and C#.

Still, it's best to tune up precisely, relax, and let the horn slot the pitches. Nothing is more tiring than struggling with intonation. So if the group is in tune, and I'm in tune with the group, and I'm warmed up and relaxed, the 6330S-II will respond with good intonation, even pretty good on the low E.

The low D and C# going sharp is a matter of physics (13 and 123 fingerings), and I'm used to correcting it with the third-valve slide (except on fluegel). But I don't know if this is also the case for the bottom-line E (12 fingering), or how much this might vary between different horn designs. There clearly have to be some design compromises between the tunings associated with different fingerings.

So anyway, I guess I will be learning to work the first-valve slide using the thumb hook, for those occasions when I notice that low E going sharp.

Kal
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallen wrote:
Hi, Lou,

Hi Kalj

Thanks for the informative discussion!

You are very welcome.

The specs look the same as the silver-plated model. The lacquered model is not available in the US.

How strange!

Right, intonation depends on the combination of player (including variable condition of chops), mouthpiece (including cup, throat and backbore), and horn.

Yes, I'd say so.

I often find myself having to lip low-register notes in tune. My fluegelhorn doesn't have a third-valve trigger, so I'm used to doing that on low D and C#.

Still, it's best to tune up precisely, relax, and let the horn slot the pitches.

I'm only a run of the mill player, but my suggestion would be to warm up first before tuning, and when playing your tuning note, rather than automatically lipping to where you have heard other players place their note, produce your note normally, and adjust from there. I know that this sounds obvious, but I used to play in one band, where one player never had to move their slide whilst tuning. It wasn't that they were always in tune, only that lipped their note to what they had heard when the band master went round the section, tuning everyone. This player then was not in tune when they played naturally, and in my opinion lipping in so that you don't appear to have been the one off tune, defeats the object of tuning.

I am not for one moment suggesting that you would do this, just mentioning that I have seen this happen in amateur bands, especially when the band master stops the band for tuning issues, as players don't want to stand out as possibly having been the one out of tune.

Obviously once the band is in tune on the tuning note, it is a case of everyone listening to the intonation.


Nothing is more tiring than struggling with intonation.So if the group is in tune, and I'm in tune with the group, and I'm warmed up and relaxed, the 6330S-II will respond with good intonation, even pretty good on the low E.

The low D and C# going sharp is a matter of physics (13 and 123 fingerings), and I'm used to correcting it with the third-valve slide (except on fluegel). But I don't know if this is also the case for the bottom-line E (12 fingering), or how much this might vary between different horn designs. There clearly have to be some design compromises between the tunings associated with different fingerings.

I'm not sure about this. I agree about the D and C#. I'm not sure about the general tuning tendencies for the low E.

So anyway, I guess I will be learning to work the first-valve slide using the thumb hook, for those occasions when I notice that low E going sharp.

Yes, I think that it is simply a case of using the 1st slide to correct this note when you feel that it is tending to be sharp.

Kal

Take care

Lou

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brianj
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for a cornet... Reply with quote

Phattlippz wrote:
Who is making an outstanding cornet these days? Might be looking to level up - looking for a free-blowing horn with great 1st/3rd slide action, capable of a wide array of tonal nuances. For jazz, primarily. Any exceptional horns out there?

Hi

I have a Besson Sovereign, Bach 184 (shepherds crook) and 2 Bach 181 LB 25 bell cornets. From your description I'd take any of mine but I favour the Bach 181 long models. The large bore 25 bell long model cornets Bach make are excellent for me.

all the best

brian jones
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HarryRichardson
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For jazz and general use, I would look hard at the Bach Strad long model cornets. My 37 long model Bach cornet is one of my favorite horns. Of course, that's what we used where I grew up. When we moved up to a pro horn, we all bough long model Bach Strad cornets-the 181, I think. I didn't get a pro trumpet until college. Then it was a 37 Bach Strad trumpet. Still play that horn 30 years, or so, later.
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scipioap
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for a cornet... Reply with quote

ajwan wrote:
What's your budget? Are you like me and sticking to <$1000, or sky's the limit? Established brand matters or a smaller shop?

I question spending so much for new, when there seems to be a glut of vintage cornets out there for so little, almost certainly due to generational disinterest. Perfect example, this beautiful 1938 Martin Standard cornet just sold for $81.22...

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Vintage-Martin-Standard-Trumpet-41704583.html

I had to physically restrain myself as I have enough superb-playing Martins as it is.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for a cornet... Reply with quote

Phattlippz wrote:
Who is making an outstanding cornet these days? Might be looking to level up - looking for a free-blowing horn with great 1st/3rd slide action, capable of a wide array of tonal nuances. For jazz, primarily. Any exceptional horns out there?
\

Getzen Eterna. When someone makes a better one, I might look at it, but doubt I can ever find a better cornet for my needs than this one. Got it used in 1994 for $300.

My C cornet is a Schilke. For L'Histoire and the light french orchestral repertoire, it's perfect. Got it used on here for $1300.
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scipioap
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for a cornet... Reply with quote

scipioap wrote:
I question spending so much for new, when there seems to be a glut of vintage cornets out there for so little, almost certainly due to generational disinterest. Perfect example, this beautiful 1938 Martin Standard cornet just sold for $81.22...

Here's another: a beautiful mid-'60s Holton C-602 that looks like it's never been used(?) Great value for $75. But the few of us that appreciate just don't need another...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holton-Collegiate-Brass-Cornet-Trumpet-with-Case-/232425776729

Back in the day, this retailed for $164.50 (over $1200, inflation-adjusted). Seems a shame for those Wisconsinite craftsmen that built it.
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jsample
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw in another vote for the Smith Watkins Soloist. I have had mine for about a year now and have certainly not regretted my choice. It is my go to instrument for the majority of my playing.
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These posts always go the same way. After naming 50 brands with 85 different types with everybody's personal taste the OP runs away as fast as his feet will allow. In fact I'm going to like it
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