Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 19 Location: Kansas City, KS
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: Maynard
I'm surprised this topic isn't a permanent one like all the others - Mendez, Gordon, et al...having said that:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/531888077007360/
"Maynardology" has now SHATTERED THE
1500 MEMBER BARRIER! In only 7 months, my dream of sharing the joy of Maynard's music and legacy with the masses is REALITY!
And there's much more to come. 2000 is next!
This "fan page" is different.
Fun...Analytical...Historical...Intelligent
If you're a member, I know that you know you have friends who also love Maynard. Invite them to join!
"Maynard lives..." because we all love and miss him. But we're only GETTING STARTED - there is much more to come - SO SPREAD THE WORD!
If you love Maynard, and want to help preserve his legacy, this is the place to be! _________________ Jack Taylor
New Vintage Big Band
bigbandjazz.com
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Maynard
highnotefan wrote:
"Maynardology" has now SHATTERED THE 1500 MEMBER BARRIER! In only 7 months, my dream of sharing the joy of Maynard's music and legacy with the masses is REALITY!
wut?
Um - the last time I checked, anyone who knows the who's who of the trumpet playing world - many more than 1500 people - knows who Maynard was, and his playing will always stand on its own. It won't need external help to stay alive and appreciated.
And 2000 people isn't exactly "the masses." 20,000 people isn't even "the masses."
Maynard will always have an appeal, but that appeal is always going to be mostly limited to musicians who "get it" - those who understand what Maynard did and why it was, and still is, so important to the music world. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
"Maynardology" has now SHATTERED THE 1500 MEMBER BARRIER! In only 7 months, my dream of sharing the joy of Maynard's music and legacy with the masses is REALITY!
wut?
Um - the last time I checked, anyone who knows the who's who of the trumpet playing world - many more than 1500 people - knows who Maynard was, and his playing will always stand on its own. It won't need external help to stay alive and appreciated.
And 2000 people isn't exactly "the masses." 20,000 people isn't even "the masses."
Maynard will always have an appeal, but that appeal is always going to be mostly limited to musicians who "get it" - those who understand what Maynard did and why it was, and still is, so important to the music world.
"The masses" generally speaking have no idea who Maynard was, nor would they care if they did. He didn't play guitar or drums, wasn't a rock or rap (🙄) star, and was not an overexposed pop princess. He**, there are even some trumpet players who dismiss him as just a "screecher."
Most any musician who has really listened to him can appreciate his super-human abilities that went way beyond upper register playing, but "the masses" will never get it. Popular music today is, with some exceptions, mostly about appearances and the shallower, easier to produce aspects of music.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
I've long felt ambivalent about Maynard. I love listening to a lot of his material, am in awe of his abilities on the horn, yet I wouldn't want to sound exactly like him if it were possible to have it magically bestowed upon me to have the whole package of his playing. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
There's a dedicated Maynard forum website, though like many forums, it's not too active anymore in the age of Facebook. So perhaps it's just as well to have a fan group there.
Maynard had a unique legacy, not just as a high note trumpeter or bandleader, but as an mentor/educator/hero to so many school band kids. I think it was a NY Times obit that really summed it up well.
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
I've long felt ambivalent about Maynard. I love listening to a lot of his material, am in awe of his abilities on the horn, yet I wouldn't want to sound exactly like him if it were possible to have it magically bestowed upon me to have the whole package of his playing.
That's perfectly valid, but...really? You REALLY would not want to have that level of playing? Not just talking range here either.
Hey, you're entitled, but I can tell you I would LOVE to be close to his level.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Posts: 543 Location: Bristol, UK
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject:
The sub-forums you mention all relate to schools of teaching, rather than just great players.
Realistically the only person who could moderate such a forum is Lynn Nicholson and I doubt he'd want to do it. _________________ UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.
REALLY? Well yes we are all entitled to our opinion,and yes its great to live in this free country,but if you asked the greats of today about Maynard,say, Arturo, Faddis, Wayne, Morrison,etc they would all happily move down a chair if Maynard walked in the room back in the 60`s..I would bet
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject:
american boy wrote:
REALLY? Well yes we are all entitled to our opinion,and yes its great to live in this free country,but if you asked the greats of today about Maynard,say, Arturo, Faddis, Wayne, Morrison,etc they would all happily move down a chair if Maynard walked in the room back in the 60`s..I would bet
Maynard in his prime could go toe to toe with anyone, period. Were there guys who could play higher? Sure, but no one else had that combination of chops, sound, volume, and above all, his swaggering style. While it may not be strictly "jazz," Maynard's playing on MF Horn and MF Horn II is just astonishing. At that point in his career, he just had scads of power with THE phattest trumpet sound, but he also had amazing control.
One of my favorite Maynard licks of all time comes in the cover of James Taylor's "Country Road" and it's toward the end at the tune. The line starts at the 3:55 mark, and the note he rips at 4:05 would have taken your head off across the room.
I've long felt ambivalent about Maynard. I love listening to a lot of his material, am in awe of his abilities on the horn, yet I wouldn't want to sound exactly like him if it were possible to have it magically bestowed upon me to have the whole package of his playing.
That's perfectly valid, but...really? You REALLY would not want to have that level of playing? Not just talking range here either.
If you took away everything over high C, I don't see anything that special about Maynard's playing. I don't really like Maynard's middle and lower register sound and cringe over affectations that crept into his playing over the years - primarily that shake/wail thing he did all the time. It's not like he was some technical beast. He had a strong lip trill but offhand I don't recall ever hearing Maynard double or triple tongue.
If I could magically sound and play like anyone it would be prime years Doc without question. He could play about as high as Maynard and at least for me his overall sound, musicality and technical facility was far superior. Doc could have played Maynard's MacArthur Park. Maynard couldn't have played Doc's if his life depended on it. Doc's ability to take a melody whether it was Top-40 pop or Great American Songbook and make it his own was superb - just something inherent in his sound and his interpretation of a song. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
I guess it is human nature to compare and critique one player "over" another. Nonetheless it is a useless exercise.
For me Maynard at his best was like a great opera soloist. He put such heart and soul into playing a melody. He chose great melodies and romanced them into something unique. And he did it almost every day for decades. Many have tried and failed to do that.
Yea, the OP got excited. The jazz big band has had a very limited following. Like poetry it may never be a fine art for the masses.
But we are so lucky to have experienced the Boss especially as trumpet players. I guess it is ok to take away only those aspects of Maynard Ferguson that you may like. Reading posters slam the aspects they do not like....for this old trumpet player...not so much. _________________ Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Brad361 wrote:
Robert P wrote:
I've long felt ambivalent about Maynard. I love listening to a lot of his material, am in awe of his abilities on the horn, yet I wouldn't want to sound exactly like him if it were possible to have it magically bestowed upon me to have the whole package of his playing.
That's perfectly valid, but...really? You REALLY would not want to have that level of playing? Not just talking range here either.
If you took away everything over high C, I don't see anything that special about Maynard's playing. I don't really like Maynard's middle and lower register sound and cringe over affectations that crept into his playing over the years - primarily that shake/wail thing he did all the time. It's not like he was some technical beast. He had a strong lip trill but offhand I don't recall ever hearing Maynard double or triple tongue.
If I could magically sound and play like anyone it would be prime years Doc without question. He could play about as high as Maynard and at least for me his overall sound, musicality and technical facility was far superior. Doc could have played Maynard's MacArthur Park. Maynard couldn't have played Doc's if his life depended on it. Doc's ability to take a melody whether it was Top-40 pop or Great American Songbook and make it his own was superb - just something inherent in his sound and his interpretation of a song.
Agree to disagree on a couple of things in your post.
For one, no one ever claimed that Maynard had great technique, or ideas, or finesse, or any of that. With that said, what Maynard played was exciting to listen to. He probably could have taken a different path with his career and how he played, but he found a niche that people wanted to hear, and he continued to work long after the big band era had come to a close because he played what people wanted to hear.
I also disagree with the assertion that Doc could have played Maynard's MacArthur Park. I've heard both in person. Doc is an amazing player, but he never played with that kind of power. At Doc's loudest, he wasn't even coming close to approaching the kind of power Maynard played with - it's not something that translates well on a recording, and anyone who heard Maynard live knows just what I mean. Doc could maybe have hit the notes, but he'd never pull it off the same way.
I don't want to come across like I'm bagging on Doc because I'm not - the guy has always been a phenomenal musician, but there's not much of a comparison you can draw when looking at what and how Maynard played. He was and still is The Boss - that won't ever change.
FWIW, I do agree that between the two if I could played like one or the other, it would have been Doc, but mostly because Doc was and is a much more rounded player - his classical playing is fantastic too. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
I saw Maynard play many times. I did not play in his band but I did double bill with him at the Blue Note NYC in 2001 with my band Macs Smokin Section. We had just released In the spirit of Fats Navarro on the Blue Note Club label Half Note Records. The booking was for six nights 2 sets for each artist. The plan was to do the same configuration in Japan later that year as the format worked well (record draw,great press etc) but 9/11 changed all of that and neither of us played the Blue Note the next year probably because of tighter budgets. It's a shame that in today's music biz climate something like that would be very unlikely to happen in the first place. Not much risk taken these days in corporate as the focus is on play it cheap or safe.In the mainstream venues gone are the risk takers. You will have to look on the outer circles if you are looking for that.
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 Posts: 397 Location: The Great White North
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 am Post subject:
It's ridiculous to compare Doc and Maynard from the vantage point of "who was better." The both made conscious choices about how they wanted to approach the horn. They were (are) both fabulous players and did more than anyone to inspire young trumpet player in the the second half of the 20th century.
As fate would have it, Maynard and Doc both spent time studying with Benny Baker during their formative years. Here's what Doc had to say, in his own words:
"He (Maynard) was a great inspiration to so many young musicians and beloved by his contemporaries and those who played in his bands. My own teacher, Benny Baker, taught in Montreal, and he told me about Maynard when he was still very young and playing in Canada only. He told me that Maynard could play anything he wanted...period. Could be a classical player -- symphony player -- just a fabulous talent. _________________ MF Fan
__________
L.A. Benge 5x
Holton MF3
Lead Trumpet - My Basement Jazz Orchestra
I've listened to Doc's recordings for decades but got to see him live only about a year ago. When I heard him live the influences of Louis Armstrong and Harry James were very apparent to me. I never got that impression from his recordings.
Doc gave a clinic before the concert and he was very candid about the day to day inconsistencies in playing trumpet. He talked a lot about how sometimes things are not working very well and how the show just needs to go on, how sometimes a player just has to persevere through response/range issues, even himself. We're all human and trumpet is a very difficult instrument. Very few players have ever been able to match up with Doc or Maynard. _________________ HERMOKIWI
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 Posts: 397 Location: The Great White North
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:50 am Post subject:
BTW, I saw Doc perform this past weekend with the Minnesota Orchestra, along with guest players Allen Vizzutti and Byron Stripling as a celebration of Doc's 90th birthday. Doc tore it up. He was playing off-mic up to high F's with that fabulous sound of his. He doesn't get around the horn the way he did in years past, but he's still playing at a level that most 30 year-olds would envy. It was clear that we were witnessing a living legend. _________________ MF Fan
__________
L.A. Benge 5x
Holton MF3
Lead Trumpet - My Basement Jazz Orchestra
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Brad361 wrote:
Robert P wrote:
I've long felt ambivalent about Maynard. I love listening to a lot of his material, am in awe of his abilities on the horn, yet I wouldn't want to sound exactly like him if it were possible to have it magically bestowed upon me to have the whole package of his playing.
That's perfectly valid, but...really? You REALLY would not want to have that level of playing? Not just talking range here either.
If you took away everything over high C, I don't see anything that special about Maynard's playing. I don't really like Maynard's middle and lower register sound and cringe over affectations that crept into his playing over the years - primarily that shake/wail thing he did all the time. It's not like he was some technical beast. He had a strong lip trill but offhand I don't recall ever hearing Maynard double or triple tongue.
.... .
Do you really think he could not double or triple tongue? And do it one heck of a lot better than you or I? C'mon man.
As far as technique, listen to The Fox Hunt." I don't know how you define technique, but my definition includes what he does on that recording.
Again, if you don't especially care for his playing, fine, and I'm not a "Maynard Ferguson forever!!" rabid fan, but if I could play HALF of what he could, I'd be pretty d*** happy.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
A lot of it was. He was a superb musician, played well on multiple instruments. Any time I heard him his band was superb, had some amazing charts.
Quote:
I also disagree with the assertion that Doc could have played Maynard's MacArthur Park. I've heard both in person. Doc is an amazing player, but he never played with that kind of power. At Doc's loudest, he wasn't even coming close to approaching the kind of power Maynard played with - it's not something that translates well on a recording, and anyone who heard Maynard live knows just what I mean. Doc could maybe have hit the notes, but he'd never pull it off the same way.
It wouldn't sound the same but there's nothing in Maynard's Mac Park that fell outside Doc's capacity. Doc demonstrated over and over how diverse his stylistic sense was.
I too have heard Doc and Maynard from close proximity and I don't agree that he didn't have as much power as Maynard. Maybe Maynard had an edge in their younger days as it took Doc a while to really fully hit his stride. I imagine if you asked Doc he's say something diplomatic and reverent like "nobody had Maynard's power" or whatever, but in reality I'd say it was about a tossup.
Anyway someone asked me if I'd want to play like Maynard and my answer is if a wave of the magic wand could make it happen, his isn't the playing I would want to emulate. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:58 am Post subject:
Like I said, agree to disagree.
I think sometimes people forget just what a monster player Maynard was before he moved into a more commercial/lucrative vein and he was marketing his stratospheric playing rather than just being an astonishingly good trumpet player. The guy could Be-Bop with the best of them, and he had chops of steel.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8998 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:59 am Post subject:
There seems to be two distinct breeds of Maynard fans and I think generational tastes might be a factor.
At any rate, many seem to be overwhelmed by Maynard's loud bands and nanny-goat vibrato and others by Maynard being equally exciting, just containing, (IMHO!), more a variety of musicality. "Ye pays yer money, ye takes yer choice."
Maynard of the 50s and 60s trump later, playing. Any doubts, listen to him holding his own with Clark Terry and Clifford Brown, heady company, in "Dinah Jams", or his "Message from Newport". _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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