At what point is an enlarged rim size significant?

kehaulani

Is there really a noticeable difference in feel between a rim size of .590 and .660 size? I want to know if it's worth it to buy a new mouthpiece.

I have a Legends JT MF mouthpiece and love it's construction all the way around, but (LOL) . . . the rim inner opening is a .590 and I've been playing a Purviance 5*K4 with a rim size of .660. I like the .660.

Will I really be making a change in feel/performance if I make the change to a slightly larger rim or shall I just press on with the .590 a it is? Thanks.
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TKSop · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:14 am Post subject:

Most people will be able to tell the difference between two pieces .010" apart in ID if all else is equal.

.070" is a massive difference, but there's more to it than just ID... The rim profile, bite, cup shape (alpha angle) will all affect the individuals perception of size - to say nothing of different manufacturers measuring in slightly different spots to each other anyway, making quoted figures difficult to compare cross-manufacturer.

If the two work well for you as a pair, I'd ignore the numbers and just enjoy using them as a pair.... If one feels like the diameter is miles wrong then it's worth considering changing it

JoeLoeffler · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243

Of course there is a difference. You said that you felt one yourself. It depends on how sensitive a player is, but all the changeable characteristics about a mouthpiece (everything is a variable...) make a difference. Only the individual can make a determination about what is best for him/her. The answer is to use what works for you to most easily allow you to do the job that you need to do.

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

IMO, measurements and specifications can be quite irrelevant when it comes down to deciding what mouthpiece will play the best for any given player, and which one to play in any particular musical situation.

I have found that I can tell differences between mouthpieces that supposedly measure the same.

burnhamd · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: Try these

If you like the V-Cup and want a little bit bigger with the V-Cup feel go with the Legends Brass MF HG.
https://www.legendsbrass.com/legends-mf-hg.html

If you want a little wider rim with a little deeper cup that has the feel of the MF JT and plays awesome go with the TS.
https://www.legendsbrass.com/legends-mf-fbl-ts-613-trumpet-mouthpiece.html

If you like the .660 I'd look at these, the Legends CF LA would be a great choice.
Legends L-13A4L
ORD: 1.06in (26.92mm) IRD: .660in (16.76mm) Cup Depth: D

Legends JM
ORD: 1.07in (27.18mm) IRD: .660in (16.76mm) Cup Depth: D/C

Legends CF LA
ORD: 1.11in (28.07mm) IRD: .660in (16.76mm) Cup Depth: D/C

Legends SH 1.0
ORD: 1.06in (26.85mm) IRD: .662in (16.82mm) Cup Depth: D/C

Hope this helps,
Dan
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deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Why do you feel the need to make a fairly big change? I gather from some of your posts that you are not a youngster. I'm guessing that you are are at least as old as I am.(61)

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject:

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Where in Hawaii were you born? My wife is from Honolulu, grew up on Kealia Drive. Just below Kamehameha School. She went to St. Andrew's Priory.

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject:

Kailua. I know St. Andrew's well; used to ride a bus to school with some of the girls. Kam was a rival. I am a McKinley ("Tokyo High") grad. Say 'hi' to your wife for me. Small world. Nice to see a fellow islander.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

I'm in Kailua at my brother in law's house. Right near Kainalu Elementary School. Did you have Joe Tom as a teacher at McKinley? He was part of our extended ohana. He passed away a few years back.
We're usually here once a year. Been catching a few concerts at the zoo. Saw Melveen Leed and Willie K. Next week is Ohta San. Heard a very fine trumpeter named DeShannon Higa last summer at a tribute for Jimmy Borges. I believe he is playing again in a few weeks at the zoo. Also went to the Ukulele Festival last week.

VetPsychWars · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:51 am Post subject:

I could tell a mouthpiece was too big for me when I couldn't do lip slurs on it and I was missing notes. I've experienced too big and too small. When I ended up getting a GR fitting with Charlie Melk (and trust me, that was not my intention), I ended up with .650 instead of the .640ish Al Cass. But with the Cass rim, hard to say which felt larger.

.590 is kind of small but not that small. Maybe an intermediate size like .630 is worth trying.

Tom
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trickg · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:25 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:46 am Post subject:

Thank you all for some very thoughtful answers. I think I'll see if Legends has a mouthpiece configured exactly like this MF except at a "larger" diameter. Again, thanks.

peanuts, have a great time. Melveen and Ohtasan. No disrespect, but didn't know they were still around, LOL. Brings back a lot of nostalgia. Great place to live, not so great to work. Enjoy.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

TKSop · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:50 am Post subject:

JVL · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:53 am Post subject:

hello Kehaulani
2 years ago, my 16.54mm ID felt a little too tight for good articulation.
I ordered custom work to Marcinkiewicz, to increase to 0.05mm the ID for new mpcs with all the same other specs i already had for lead, jazz, classical.
While it was perfect immediately with deeper mpcs, it required couple of months to get perfectly used to the lead mpc, that gave me already better ease and sound; the only probs are that the high register was a little more "expensive", and the stamina too. After that acclimatation period of 1-1 months, it was perfect.

so, you can see how these little 0.05mm (0.0019 inches) made all the difference !!! To me, to my feeling and playing.

best

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Melveen still sounds good, not sure how old she is. Ohta San is about 83 and still going strong. He plays with a guitarist from Pear City named Nando Suan. Nando is even older than Herb. Plays like Wes Montgomery.

GordonH · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:30 am Post subject:

When you make a significant change in size it changes the muscle engagement. I noticed this when I had to go smaller for a year when I was having dental work done and then had two switch back. During both changes I lost loads of stamina and it felt like different muscles were working for each size. I was going from 17mm to 16.2mm at the time. I have since settled around the 16.4 for everything.
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Seymor B Fudd · Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:56 am Post subject:

razeontherock · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject:

Greg Black says that once your chops are developed on a certain mpc, a change of.005" is too much. The frustrating part is asking a different manufacturer to match your.660", then what you get feels miles off.

Your best bet is to send the maker your current mpc, but at the least, tell him what you've been playing and ask for the same ID