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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:01 am Post subject: Many obscure french flugelhorns |
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Hi everybody,
I'm looking for a used, cheap flugelhorn. I really don't play it often but I'd like to get one next to me when I need it.
I don't want to get into the chinese horn. I'm rather looking in the french classified ads where there's a bunch of used flugels at any price and condition. No doubt I can find something that will suit to my needs.
There's many vintage flugels available made in France and Belgium. They are often stamped of an unknown or not well known brand. I guess the majority should be stencils made by Couesnon, Besson or any other serious maker. So you have:
-MILLERAU
-COUTURIER
-COUSIN LYON
-FISCHER PARIS
-GRAS
-MAHILLON BRUXELLES
-PELISSON & GAILLARD
And some other...I didn't get much info through my search and I'd like to kow as much as possible about these vintage horns. I'm sure I can get a vey nice Couesnon or Besson stencil for 50 or 100 Euros in good condition.
Thanks to share your knowledge and sorry for english! _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: |
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@ jojcat,
Be careful, many of these factories and brands are long-gone and the instruments are ancient, and often in need of major repairs. That being said, you are correct in that these can get the right flugel sound - they invented the instrument!
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:06 am Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | @ jojcat,
Be careful, many of these factories and brands are long-gone and the instruments are ancient, and often in need of major repairs. That being said, you are correct in that these can get the right flugel sound - they invented the instrument!
-Lionel |
Thanks a lot Lionel, actually as I said you can find these vintage flugels in any condition; I saw some who looked more like an ancient egyptian artefact so much they were beaten and corroded. And I saw some who are almost in mint condition. _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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oldblow Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 676 Location: Mitchell, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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An Elkhart flugelhorn made by Couesnon is a good horn. They don't turn up really often, but they do turn up. They seem to have been made over a period of several years, and will have the usual Couesnon markings, with a frosted looking E on the bell. _________________ Felton (Butch) Bohannon |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:40 am Post subject: |
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oldblow wrote: | An Elkhart flugelhorn made by Couesnon is a good horn. They don't turn up really often, but they do turn up. They seem to have been made over a period of several years, and will have the usual Couesnon markings, with a frosted looking E on the bell. |
I always thought these were made in America...or China!! _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I bought a Yamaha 631 back in 1977 or 1978 that has served me well ever since. Yamahas are high quality, feel and sound great, and parts are readily available if service is ever needed. It's not French but I couldn't be happier with my 631. I'm sure a good used one wouldn't set you back too much.
Best wishes,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | I bought a Yamaha 631 back in 1977 or 1978 that has served me well ever since. Yamahas are high quality, feel and sound great, and parts are readily available if service is ever needed. It's not French but I couldn't be happier with my 631. I'm sure a good used one wouldn't set you back too much.
Best wishes,
John Mohan |
Thanks for the advice. I never saw a 631 under 500 bucks and it's way over what I'm ready to pay. _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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jojocat wrote: | John Mohan wrote: | I bought a Yamaha 631 back in 1977 or 1978 that has served me well ever since. Yamahas are high quality, feel and sound great, and parts are readily available if service is ever needed. It's not French but I couldn't be happier with my 631. I'm sure a good used one wouldn't set you back too much.
Best wishes,
John Mohan |
Thanks for the advice. I never saw a 631 under 500 bucks and it's way over what I'm ready to pay. |
Ah. I didn't realize you could get any used Flugel for that low of a price. When you write about French ads for Flugels, are you referring to French language ads in Quebec? If so, with your locale you might find a real treasure! |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | jojocat wrote: | John Mohan wrote: | I bought a Yamaha 631 back in 1977 or 1978 that has served me well ever since. Yamahas are high quality, feel and sound great, and parts are readily available if service is ever needed. It's not French but I couldn't be happier with my 631. I'm sure a good used one wouldn't set you back too much.
Best wishes,
John Mohan |
Thanks for the advice. I never saw a 631 under 500 bucks and it's way over what I'm ready to pay. |
Ah. I didn't realize you could get any used Flugel for that low of a price. When you write about French ads for Flugels, are you referring to French language ads in Quebec? If so, with your locale you might find a real treasure! |
Nothing really interesting up here. We french canadians do not have the rich band tradition you have in USA. The used market is thus pretty small.
I rather look at the ads from France. There often real treasure to find there, but people from France unfortunately accept to ship but very often do not trust Paypal and ask for bank transfers as payment, which is kind of risky for an oversea buyer. _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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oldblow Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 676 Location: Mitchell, Georgia
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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The Couesnon Elkharts that I am talking about were made from the fifties until about the seventies, I believe.
I have two. One is an old silver one with a French taper pipe. It was modified by Dick Akright for a California player who used it for many years----successfully, he claims, using a Bach taper mouthpiece! The other horn is considerably newer, and is in brass. It takes a standard taper mouthpiece.
Bach has a Chinese flugel called the Elkhart that they currently market, especially in Europe, I believe.
No, these horns I am talking about have all the usual Couesnon markings and numbers, and were made in France. They are not recognized as being Couesnon stencils, and usually sell for $200 or $300. I have played mine along in ensemble with professional players, and had no problem playing in tune. I pull the first a hair and the third slide about 5/16". _________________ Felton (Butch) Bohannon |
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jimjehu Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2014 Posts: 26
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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LeBlanc (Paris) flugels should be available in Canada. I bought mine in Toronto around 1972. I'm still in love with it. |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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jimjehu wrote: | LeBlanc (Paris) flugels should be available in Canada. I bought mine in Toronto around 1972. I'm still in love with it. |
Never saw even the shadow of a Leblanc horn in Canada and I look at the ads about everyday.
Oldblow, thanks a lot for the information on these Elkhart Couesnon stencils. Looks to be very interresting. I'll sharpen my buyer's eye the next time!
I'm shy to tell it but I bought a Couesnon Monopole about 4 years ago. It was in excellent shape. Paid it CAN $300 and.....immediately flipped it.....shame on me! _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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derby_mute Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 343 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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i live in France and I wouldn't recommend buying a flugel from here. If you are looking on leboncoin, most of the instruments sold there are offered from people who don't play and won't have a clue about whether the instrument is good or not. I've bought a few cornets on there and stopped because I got burned a couple of times. Mostly from really bad packing, despite telling the sellers how to pack the horn.
I think you would be much better off looking for a flugel on ebay.ca or buying one from someone you can trust will sell you a good instrument. Sure you may have to pay more money but if you buy something from France and end up with a dog, you have lost and would be further away money-wise from buying something decent. _________________ Cornets:
Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
Baldwin Custom (Blessing Artist stencil)
1923 Buescher shepherd's crook
1880 F. Besson Paris
Trumpets:
1931 Cleveland Greyhound
1935 Olds French model |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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derby_mute wrote: | i live in France and I wouldn't recommend buying a flugel from here. If you are looking on leboncoin, most of the instruments sold there are offered from people who don't play and won't have a clue about whether the instrument is good or not. I've bought a few cornets on there and stopped because I got burned a couple of times. Mostly from really bad packing, despite telling the sellers how to pack the horn.
I think you would be much better off looking for a flugel on ebay.ca or buying one from someone you can trust will sell you a good instrument. Sure you may have to pay more money but if you buy something from France and end up with a dog, you have lost and would be further away money-wise from buying something decent. |
Thanks for the advice, but you know I'm very cautious when doing it. For your information in the past 3 years I bought many instruments and they were all fantastic horns for the price. _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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jojocat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 948 Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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By the way this week I bought a flugelhorn on eBay France. Got it for peanuts and it's in great shape except a missing finger button. Not a problem to find a used replacement set for cheap.
It's branded FERET-MARCOTTE...have you ever heard of this maker? Surely not, cause Feret-Marcotte is a violin bow maker and I may be wrong but I guess they never made any brass instruments. Looking at the horn ( shape, valve block, braces etc...) I would not be surprised it's a Courtois stencil.
We'll see! _________________ The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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