Pre French Besson

[Rene Janisse]

I happened to purchase a trumpet from an antique store that I suspect was a just prior to the French Besson. The manufacturer was Rene Guinot, 10 Rue Beaurepaire, Paris. All I could find was a bout this manufacturer was he made saxophones in the early 1920's. I'm unable to upload pictures but it's uncanny how much it looks like an early French Besson. The serial number is 953, it has a forward second valve slide, a throw ring on the bottom of the third slide with no water key on the third and an adjustment srew for the throw on the top of the slide. The tunning slide has what looks like the same type of water key that the Besson has and also has an adjustment srcew. The nibs on the !st, 2nd and 3rd slides are all exactly like the ones on the Besson. The valves look exactly like the Besson except they are raw brass. The valve caps, tops and bottoms all Besson like.
I was thinking maybe this manufacturer let the Besson company take the horn to make it their own and just concentrated on saxophones.
Just looking for ideas.

[scottfsmith]

The 3rd slide bottom ring was common in the early 20th century on several French makers. I don't think it appeared until around 1900-1905 or so though? The earliest Besson trumpets were probably from the 1880s.

Many of these early French trumpets look similar, they tended to copy what what was in fashion, much of it in that period being details from the early Besson trumpets. Some makers to look at for comparison include Courtois, Mahillion, Sax, Cousenon, Thibouville-Lamy, etc.

I have never heard of Rene Guinot, but Guinot-Banchon was making trumpets in that period and could be related. My guess is this is one of the many makers building trumpets in the style of the day.

To post a photo go to imgur.com or similar site and upload it and then paste the link in here..
_________________
Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[homebilly]

Rue Beaurepaire is very close to the former Rue d'Angouleme making it very possible that Besson in fact made the horn or perhaps the craftsmen at Couesnon as they shared the same block and many times the same parts à la Kanstul today.

my old land lord lived on Rue Beaurepaire


it's probably a Besson with a different stamp on it..........



in 2013 when i visited the old Couesnon factory

_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[scottfsmith]

I found a page on the history of this firm:

http://luthiervents.blogspot.com/2011/10/

He was born in 1890, it looks like that address was active in 1927.

It could be a Besson stencil given that he seems to have mainly made saxophones, or it could be manufactured in the style of Besson as there was a lot of copying going on.
_________________
Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[Rene Janisse]

http://imgur.com/a/1vjwU http://imgur.com/a/LKg4J
here are the pictures you can view
Thanks for the information.

[scottfsmith]

That looks like a dead ringer of a 1920's French Besson. It has several features that I don't see on other French makes of the period, including the little brace between the 3rd valve slide and the tuning slide. The valve cluster turnings also look extremely similar, usually when a design is copied they at least change those a bit. In other words, that looks like a stencil made in the Besson factory.
_________________
Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[homebilly]

sure looks like a Besson to me. mine had the same Lyre holder at the very same angle when i bought it. it was the fist thing to go
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[Rene Janisse]

I figured I should put more pictures.
http://imgur.com/a/lzidT
http://imgur.com/a/hZ52r
http://imgur.com/a/gWVOg
http://imgur.com/a/zLt7U
thank you for checking this trumpet out and for your comments.

[Rene Janisse]

When I found this trumpet, it was very badly tanrnished, the lead pipe was twisted and the braces had to be straightened. I was very surprised to see that it wasn't a Besson after the clean up.