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Thirty Five Basic Points of the Pivot System



 
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Thirty Five Basic Points of the Pivot System Reply with quote

So, in one unnamed pedagogy there are thirty five basic points of the pivot system. There are 35 basic points; who knows how many subsidiary points.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying that there isn't anything profitable in that sort of thing, but personally, I'd rather spend the time practicing then reading.

...just saying.

Warm regards,
Grits
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tim_wolf
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Thirty Five Basic Points of the Pivot System Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
So, in one unnamed pedagogy there are thirty five basic points of the pivot system. There are 35 basic points; who knows how many subsidiary points.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying that there isn't anything profitable in that sort of thing, but personally, I'd rather spend the time practicing then reading.

...just saying.

Warm regards,
Grits


Why not spend the time reading and practicing? Here's someone who did just that. Would you like to play this well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ3-BhFUD7w
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's to say that different approaches won't suit different personalities?

Could it be that an unnamed approach that emphasizes learning details and paying attention to mechanics won't suit some people better and another unnamed approach that emphasizes working through prescribed exercises and focusing on air won't work better for others?
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there's anything wrong with developing a list of playing tips. Reinhardt did, and I think most of them make sense. I don't follow them to the letter, but I wouldn't criticize someone else who does.

Franquin came up with a list of 30 principles of study, and they're different than the Reinhardt list. I think they all make sense, and I try to follow them to the letter. If someone else disagrees and wants to go a different way, that's fine by me—wouldn't make me change my thinking.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is nothing to do with Claude Gordon. I'm not sure why it's in this subforum.

Better in future to explain your experience rather than just posting an opinion that apparently pulled from thin air. 35 points or 7, what matters is if it helps you Improve.

I mean Hickman's trumpet pedagogy book is two inches thick. That alone doesn't mean it isn't a good book.
CGs Deep Breathing book is about 1/10 the size. That doesn't make it good either. I person think they are both excellent books! And I think that about the encyclopedia of the pivot system too, even if I mostly don't like to think too much about mechanics.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tim_Wolf posted:

Would you like to play this well?


Yes, indeed I would. If he got there via Reinhardt, God bless them both. I don't know that I will ever get there, but I am quite certain that there are no amount of rules that I could memorize that would get me there faster.

Quote:
TKSop posted:

Who’s to say that different approaches won't suit different personalities?


Quote:
I posted:

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying that there isn't anything profitable in that sort of thing, but personally…


Quote:
dstdenis posted:

I don't think there's anything wrong with developing a list of playing tips. Reinhardt did, and I think most of them make sense. I don't follow them to the letter, but I wouldn't criticize someone else who does.

Franquin came up with a list of 30 principles of study, and they're different than the Reinhardt list. I think they all make sense, and I try to follow them to the letter. If someone else disagrees and wants to go a different way, that's fine by me—wouldn't make me change my thinking.


No, there’s nothing wrong - for some folks. I am intrigued by different approaches to pedagogy. By nature, I am driven to find ways to simplify things. Obviously, others are much more detail oriented than me. Regarding Reihhardt’s tips, I might agree with you that “...most of them make sense. I don’t follow them to the letter” but after reading through them I realized that it would require a lot more study time just to make sure that I understood exactly what he was saying. I’d rather memorize Clarke’s Technical Studies Lesson #7 than the 35 rules. I understand that he arrived at these rules through much study. I think that I might eventually come to the same conclusions, but I will get there through my own practice and playing experience. For me, the 35 rules aren't a shortcut to "getting there."

Quote:
Trumpetingbynurture posted:

This is nothing to do with Claude Gordon. I'm not sure why it's in this subforum.


You have to read between the lines. If you don’t get it, don’t sweat it.

Warm regards,
Grits
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While there's nothing wrong with this thread, I don't think it belongs here. It seems to me it should be in the Pedagogy Forum.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
Quote:
Tim_Wolf posted:

Would you like to play this well?


Yes, indeed I would. If he got there via Reinhardt, God bless them both. I don't know that I will ever get there, but I am quite certain that there are no amount of rules that I could memorize that would get me there faster.

Quote:
TKSop posted:

Who’s to say that different approaches won't suit different personalities?


Quote:
I posted:

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying that there isn't anything profitable in that sort of thing, but personally…


Quote:
dstdenis posted:

I don't think there's anything wrong with developing a list of playing tips. Reinhardt did, and I think most of them make sense. I don't follow them to the letter, but I wouldn't criticize someone else who does.

Franquin came up with a list of 30 principles of study, and they're different than the Reinhardt list. I think they all make sense, and I try to follow them to the letter. If someone else disagrees and wants to go a different way, that's fine by me—wouldn't make me change my thinking.


No, there’s nothing wrong - for some folks. I am intrigued by different approaches to pedagogy. By nature, I am driven to find ways to simplify things. Obviously, others are much more detail oriented than me. Regarding Reihhardt’s tips, I might agree with you that “...most of them make sense. I don’t follow them to the letter” but after reading through them I realized that it would require a lot more study time just to make sure that I understood exactly what he was saying. I’d rather memorize Clarke’s Technical Studies Lesson #7 than the 35 rules. I understand that he arrived at these rules through much study. I think that I might eventually come to the same conclusions, but I will get there through my own practice and playing experience. For me, the 35 rules aren't a shortcut to "getting there."

Quote:
Trumpetingbynurture posted:

This is nothing to do with Claude Gordon. I'm not sure why it's in this subforum.


You have to read between the lines. If you don’t get it, don’t sweat it.

Warm regards,
Grits


I get it, but it doesn't actually add anything of value to the CG subforum. It just seems like a totally unnecessary post...
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Thirty Five Basic Points of the Pivot System Reply with quote

tim_wolf wrote:
Grits Burgh wrote:
So, in one unnamed pedagogy there are thirty five basic points of the pivot system. There are 35 basic points; who knows how many subsidiary points.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not saying that there isn't anything profitable in that sort of thing, but personally, I'd rather spend the time practicing then reading.

...just saying.

Warm regards,
Grits


Why not spend the time reading and practicing? Here's someone who did just that. Would you like to play this well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ3-BhFUD7w


Let's not forget this tasty number:

https://youtu.be/IWLZKAE1xZc
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Moderators
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved by request from the CG forum.

Using a dedicated forum as cover to take shots at another method is considered bad form.

Moderators
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Grits Burgh
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Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 447
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all, if I am guilty of bad form and have offended anyone, I sincerely apologize. I never wish to offend at anytime.

That said, I am a retired U.S. Marine. I am afraid that sensitivity is something in which I am gifted neither by nature nor nurture.

My original post was:
1) An unfiltered reaction to my first reading of the subject matter in question.
2) A solicitation of opinions on the same subject by members of the CG forum.

I pride myself on my support of civility not only on Trumpet Herald, but in communications with others in all of life. Although I will endeavor to be more circumspect in future posts, when I inevitably transgress, please see paragraph 2 above.

Warm regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
A bunch of mouthpieces, none of which are the right feel, size, depth or sound - except for my Curry 3FLD.
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