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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: Q's about Monkes |
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I know I have created a thread previously on about Monke rotary trumpets and I am wanting to explore more about this 'landmark' rotary of Germany.
Question 1: I know all (or some says a few people) have a sock-in-the-bell factor 'naturally' built in the Monke but how is this sock factor generated from? The bracing? The inner structure or build process?
Question 2: How do you get 'rid' of the sock factor?
Question 3: If the question above is impossible, how do you overcome the sock factor or make your Monke a little more free-blowing? Is it mouthpiece choice or putting a interchange-able leadpipe?
Question 4: What are some nice mouthpiece combinations for a Monke rotary?
Question 5: Are older pre-1965 (Pre-Liselotte Monke era/Verfertigt) better than the post 1965 Angfertigt?
Question 6: Are the newer 21st centuries any different from the older Monkes?
Question 7: Would I be accepted in a top tier orchestra with a Monke? Or would I be tossed out into the darkness just because a different player maybe has the brand new Schagerl, Lechner or Weimann?
Question 8: What are some tips you would give to a fellow trumpeter who wants to be a Monke? Any warnings or bewares?
Question 9 (FINAL!!): Would you recommend an original Monke or the Yamaha Monke copy based off the Monkes?
Thanks in advance! _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Adolph Herseth didn't get tossed out of the CSO for having a Monke. Seriously, your question about that is a little absurd. People don't get hired because they have the shiniest, newest instrument.
When I subbed in the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra I tended to use a Bach 1X with a #22 throat and the #24 Symphonic backbore with my Monkes. But that's me, not you. Big, deep, open mouthpieces seem to be favored by folks playing rotaries. I have a feeling I just stated the obvious.
While I'm sure the Yamahas are fine horns, they are not used by pros as much as Monkes or the other major European brands. That said, if you get the chance to, play them all with a critical listener (or a few) and make your own determination. |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2198 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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just be careful of the dreaded Monke Breath..... _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Davy Jones was so dreamy. |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Dear Mr Mohan,
I know I have put it rather wrongly but Herseth was top of his game and 'his' CSO era was the golden era of Monkes throughout the world.
Now it is a different story with the new Weimanns and etc therefore that was why I asked. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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ravel Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 127
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't matter what brand you play so long as you play it well and sound great. Nobody in the audience knows or really cares what brand it is. |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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True that, ravel. You just need to sound great. Just wanted to confirm that.
Someone in a German orchestra said it was impossible to see someone with a Monke in a top tier orchestra. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | Davy Jones was so dreamy. |
Yes, from The Monkees brass quartet, they blew the socks of your feet! |
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Daniel Barenboim Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 247
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I would listen to Mr. Mohan. He knows what he is talking about. After all, he auditioned for the CSO once.
DB |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:42 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | Davy Jones was so dreamy. |
? _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Please do not divert this thread with other subjects. I still haven't received my answers for my questions. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:22 am Post subject: |
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You got all the answers you could expect.
And I only explained your ? But maybe that was too difficult for you. |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Oh please, Franklin do this somewhere else. I am trying to get legit answers. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Then better try a German forum like Trompetenforum.de. More Monke's there I presume.
Last edited by delano on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: |
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TheBrassBandMajor wrote: | oxleyk wrote: | Davy Jones was so dreamy. |
? |
They were all cute. |
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Gottfried Reiche Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2013 Posts: 184
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Q's about Monkes |
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TheBrassBandMajor wrote: | I know I have created a thread previously on about Monke rotary trumpets and I am wanting to explore more about this 'landmark' rotary of Germany.
Question 1: I know all (or some says a few people) have a sock-in-the-bell factor 'naturally' built in the Monke but how is this sock factor generated from? The bracing? The inner structure or build process?
Can't really answer this...probably both.
Question 2: How do you get 'rid' of the sock factor?
Every time I've experimented with Monkes, I've never been able to really make them play the way that I want to. Occasionally you'll find a great one, but they are rare.
Question 3: If the question above is impossible, how do you overcome the sock factor or make your Monke a little more free-blowing? Is it mouthpiece choice or putting a interchange-able leadpipe?
Probably both, but your mileage may vary.
Question 4: What are some nice mouthpiece combinations for a Monke rotary?
There are lots of mouthpieces that work well on rotaries...Breslmair, Klier, Tilz, Toshi, Bach (with the right backbore), Curry BC series, etc. You should experiment...but I would use something with a pretty large backbore. Short shank also works well. Monette mouthpieces work great on rotary (and I do not prefer them on piston trumpets at all).
Question 5: Are older pre-1965 (Pre-Liselotte Monke era/Verfertigt) better than the post 1965 Angfertigt?
no idea
Question 6: Are the newer 21st centuries any different from the older Monkes?
Again, no idea...I'm not a Monke scholar...I just play trumpet full time in a major US orchestra.
Question 7: Would I be accepted in a top tier orchestra with a Monke? Or would I be tossed out into the darkness just because a different player maybe has the brand new Schagerl, Lechner or Weimann?
In theory, yes, but in practice, probably not. This is where Mohan and I probably differ. Yes, the most important thing is how you sound and blend with the section. But that's going to be tough on a Monke. Huge strides have been made in rotary trumpets, like Weimann, Schagerl etc., which makes Monke's pretty obsolete. The newer makers play so well, that transitioning is easier. Can you do that on a Monke? Probably...but the amount of time and effort for you to do it may not be worth it. And it's just factual that it's going to be tougher to produce the same sound (not just tone quality, I'm including articulations, intonation, etc.) as on a Weimann or Schagerl. So it's going to be tougher to just plop in a section and do that. That being said, if you win a job in a full time orchestra that uses those instruments, chances are the orchestra will own a set that you can use from. We have a guy who is a GREAT player that subs with us often...he's brought his Monke in, and it just did not work. The instrument, quite frankly, was holding him back. So, as I said...in theory, yes, but in practice, probably not.
Question 8: What are some tips you would give to a fellow trumpeter who wants to be a Monke? Any warnings or bewares?
I really would look into something else.
Question 9 (FINAL!!): Would you recommend an original Monke or the Yamaha Monke copy based off the Monkes?
The Yamaha would be a better instrument, in my opinion.
Thanks in advance! |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2198 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: |
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i think Mickey Dolenz doubled on a Monke _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Good one, LOL. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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ravel Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 127
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Nobody has complained about my monke though admittedly it is a little more dofficult to play compared to newer rotaries that play and sound more like Pistons. I think the older horns are indeed better.... |
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