Mouthpiece for switching between flugel and trumpet

Slowblue

I bought an Antoine Courtois flugelhorn a couple of months ago which I love. It's dark, expressive and I find it a joy to to play. The contrast with the Olds Superstar is so pronounced and I like switching between them, sometimes within the same number.

I use a Bach 2 1/2 C for trumpet. The flugel came with an Antoine Courtois B4C (which I tend to use) and a Bobby Shew.

If I warm up on either the horn on the trumpet my embouchure seems to settle into one of the mouthpieces. But when I switch between them I often a get a roughness with some notes on the flugelhorn.

It might be that I should just continue to switch between them when practicing and my lip will get used to it, or is there another mouthpiece option?

Would moving to a Bach 7C for trumpet mean the mouthpieces were more similar?

RandyTX · Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject:

Most of the time I use a flugel mouthpiece with basically an identical rim (everything underneath is different) to what I use on a trumpet.

I think you just need to work on going back and forth between the two more often. Play a few lines on trumpet, switch to flugel for the next few, then switch back, etc. Eventually you'll get to where you don't care anymore.
_________________
"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."

dr_trumpet · Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject:

Two ways to go here:

1. Buy a 2 1/2 flugel piece and see if that helps. Be sure to get the right shank for the mouthpiece for your flugelhorn.

2. It is hard to be sure what you mean by rough sound, but generally speaking, sounds problems on flugel are a direct result of a mouthpiece issue. If it is bright and edgy, the rim or cup can be too small. If it is tubby and growls, it can be because the flugel piece is too deep and causes an embouchure issue to develop on the flugel piece.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

I also use the exact same cup diameter and rim for flug and trumpet. The muscles and the brain have a thing going. Sure you can practice switching but why put that on the brain to recall muscle memory.

Flugelhorn is such a forgiving instrument. I do not think you will be disappointed if you get a cup diameter and rim just like the 2 1/2 C. BTW, my teacher Bruce Reavez put me on a 2 1/2 C and I loved the sound and feel. I had to go to a lead piece when I came to Detroit. But I used that 2 1/2 C and an old New York Bach for the Annie solo for two 6 month runs with very accurate results. The bite really helps.

Best of luck.

Gordon Stump
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student

dstdenis · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:53 am Post subject:

I have a Courtois flugelhorn, and I also use a mpc with the same rim diameter and shape as my trumpet mpc. Although I think I could get by with a different mpc rim diameter and shape, I find keeping it the same makes it easier to switch back and forth and quickly set the mpc in the right position so I'm ready to play.

I started with a fairly deep mpc at first, but after about 6 months I switched to another with a slightly shallower cup. The Courtois has such a deep, mellow sound anyway, and I found the shallower mpc easier to play.

I haven't had problems I'd describe as a rough sound, but I do have to spend some quality time practicing with it if I'll be playing parts that go above the middle register, otherwise I can have trouble keeping my lips vibrating. I've found it helpful to practice Clarke Technical #1, gradually going higher and higher, while thinking about blowing easy and not overdoing it with flexing the embouchure muscles—firm, but not clenched so tight that it shuts down. For me, it's more of a skill thing than an equipment thing.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

Slowblue · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:04 pm Post subject:

Great advice, many thanks for this.

@Randytx, yes I think you're right that getting a similar rim might be enough.

@DrTrumpet, it's a tubby growl and only on some notes, concert A seems to be the worst. Because the 2 1/2 C is wider it feels like unless I have warmed up on the Flugelhorn part of my embouchure is drawn into the cup more than usual. More practice would sort it, but getting a similar rim size might too.

@gstump, I've been surprised at how forgiving the flugelhorn is to play, quite easy to bend notes but also pitches beautifully. My trumpet teacher (many years ago) used to play in the LSO and moved me after a couple of years from a Bach 7C to a 2 1/2: its what I've always used.

@dstdenis, I love the sound of the Courtois flugelhorn and feel very fortunate to have found one second hand. The Bobby Shew mouthpiece is more shallow and I noticed a small change in tone (or thought I did

). I'll try a deep cup with the same rim size first off.

My horn is in this clip (not being played by me though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3owdY-SIGA

GordonH · Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:03 am Post subject:

I use the same rim on flugel and trumpet, BUT I play on a quite deep trumpet mouthpiece so the alpha angle is about the same as the flugel one. Some players prefer to go a little bit smaller on flugel mouthpiece to compensate for using a shallower trumpet mouthpiece.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM