Keilwerth 'Toneking' Trumpet?

karlose · Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: Keilwerth 'Toneking' Trumpet?

Has anyone ever heard of these trumpets? I know kelwerth makes a great Saxophone, but Trumpets too? If you have heard of them, what do you think of them. Are they worth anything? Please help, I found one in a pawn shop for cheap, so I was just wondering if it was a good investment.

Thanks!
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Charles · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:02 am Post subject:

puukka · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:15 am Post subject:

Hmmm, I may be wrong but wasn´t it a cheap amateur trumpet once made in the German Democratic Republic? Really nothing professional, as I remember.
Regards,
Herbert
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gus · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452

I know pretty well the Keilwerth trumpets. One of them was my first trumpet. In fact the one I had was with Baeurfeind valves ( the same as Taylor, Eclipse etc ). The original Toneking did not have these valves.

These trumpets were built ( they are not produced anymore ), in Nauheim, Germany (near Frankfurt ). They were decent trumpets at a level that I can say intermediate level (They built some pro horns, but they are rare. ).

SO my conclusion is try the horn and later decide.

Gus

Claude G. · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:19 am Post subject:

and I just bought the pro model, the Toneking Deluxe, it is a FANTASTIC pro horn as good as any of the big names out there, in fact, I am playing the JK now more than my $2600 JBX!

krax · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject:

I have not played the student model Toneking.

I have owned one of these professional Toneking Deluxe.

Truly a professional horn with no doubt. It has that "this is a REAL trumpet" feeling, you know. Superb intonation, easy to play and and a good sound.

BUT! Do not expect it to play like a new Bach or Yamaha, as the bore is small and unless you are used to that you will definately overblow it. However I believe it is well worth getting used to. Mine was also rather mouthpiece sensitive, with a Bach 1½C the sound was huge but with smaller mouthpieces the sound was rather weak. Differences in sound quality were bigger than they usually are.

The guy sitting next to me in our community band borrowed it for awhile and we agree completely on these statements. However he have a really early Toneking with a low low serial number and that one is pretty bad.

The good one looked like this:

I sold it to a local comebacker and I almost envy him for having such a great horn to relearn on.

kandor · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:36 am Post subject:

I own a Toneking De Luxe with serial no. 2896, and I believe it was build around 1960, not later. The valves are still in very good shape, as the rest of the horn. Do you have any idea how I can tell if the valves are from Bauerfeind ?
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Claude G. · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:39 am Post subject:

mffan · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:24 am Post subject:

There is a fairly nice looking Toneking on Ebay now , with almost 4 days to go and no bids yet. Bell pipe looks bent down a little.
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hammmondbrass · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:11 am Post subject:

I played on a Toneking all through high school. It was my grandfather's horn that we found in his attic. It was very old (antique) and my grandfather remembers it was given to him prior to WWII.

I still have it and was surprised to find that others are still around. I stopped playing it after high school because the bore was so small. Is that true with most tonekings, small bore?

Claude G. · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am Post subject:

so? When I record with the Toneking (DeLuxe Pro model) it sounds very big on the tape, it also can sound big live. It is not that small a bore I suspect (553 v 560?). Ultimately, it is the combination of horn/mouthpiece that creates the sound you want. If you feel it is small, then maybe go to a larger backbore on your mouthpiece (or "bore out" your current mouthpiece!). It is a great horn......I prefer playing it to many other so-called big "pro horns."

trumanjazzguy · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject:

I currently play a 1962 Keilwerth "Super Deluxe" in bright silver, which was their absolute top of the line. It has an EXTREMELY large powerful tone of great carrying power. It is rather heavy, but is on the bright side of the sound spectrum. It is capable of playing well in tune in C if you take out the inner leg portion of the tuning slide, a vintage throwback feature for sure. It also has a Kranz ring that extends over the rim of the bell and makes an interesting circle around the inside edge of the bell rim. I will soon be recording my first jazz album on this horn, simply the best tone I've ever had on ANY trumpet, and I've played many dozens.
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FL: Yamaha Bobby Shew

LittleRusty · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject:

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 548

They were modelled after the King Super 20 trumpet. But I have never played a Keilworth, so I don't know how they play by comparison. Maybe someone else on the forum has?
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budstahl · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:29 pm Post subject:

BrigantiumJazz · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:23 am Post subject:

I have an Keilwerth Deluxe from the 50ies. Serial number: 30xx And there is the same Problem, because the mouthpiecereceiver is larger than today. I got 2 old mouthpieces with the Instrument. One is original from Keilwerth The shanks are thicker than mouthpieces from tadayâ€¦

I solved the Problem this way: I wrap aluminum foil around the shank of my mouthpiece, when I play with this instrumentâ€¦ Then the intonation is ok... and the slide is in nearly normal Position.

Here you can find a lot of Information to the keilwerth trumpets and the Serial numbers:
https://marge.home.xs4all.nl/Keilwerthserials.htm

Kind Regards Martin (from Austria...)

Manuel de los Campos · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:46 am Post subject:

I played a Julius Keilwerth Toneking Deluxe a few years ago. A beautiful made copy of the King Super 20 from 1949. The latter I possesed earlier, that one I sold to a friend of mine so I could compare them

M-bore, Quick change to A, reasonable resistance / free blowing, like Bach 180-37
The King had a warmer sound, valves of the Toneking where better. They both where not the easiest playing horns but none of them was better, technically spoken
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budstahl · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:19 am Post subject:

Manuel de los Campos · Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:10 am Post subject:

My Toneking Deluxe was in Bb, not in C. Both the Super 20 and the Toneking Deluxe took normal mouthpieces, nothing special.
If you scroll upwards there is a picture of a trumpet the same as my Keilwerth

Actually once I posessed a Toneking as well, a good instrument with a remarkable easy high register!
Very bright sounding, not as sophisticated as was the Toneking Deluxe
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Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs)