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number juan Regular Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2015 Posts: 44
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: High range in high school trumpets? |
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I was just wondering how many high schools have trumpet players who consistently play notes above a high c.
The highest in my high school band's stand tunes for games is a high c, but being trumpets we take up as many parts as we can just for fun. Normally up to Fs and Gs above a high c, with an occasional A, and for one song a B below dhc.
Is it just my school, or do most other schools have sections that will play in that register for like half of all the music at games? |
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bnsd Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 126
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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we all did that in high school (in the 80s) too... it was not always the most musical thing, just having fun and showing off
I remember competing against a rival high school, and the guy on the other side is blowing double C's all day long...
The following year in college I met the guy, and yeah he had chops for days.
I think all high schoolers do that, with varying success.
It's cool that things haven't changed much since my days... I decided in high school (and found out it's true) that a strong consistent high A would be good enough for most gigs
mine still isn't consistent |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Remember that Rick Baptist said he played a total of 2 double C's for performance or recording in his career.
I'm not sure if Uan Rasey ever played high notes at all.
High stuff sure is fun though! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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In my high school (and neighboring bands) musicality trumped range. Is high-note obsession universal? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: High range in high school trumpets? |
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number juan wrote: | I was just wondering how many high schools have trumpet players who consistently play notes above a high c.
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How many? A lot but that's just an estimate.
I believe the big hotshot 1st chair player in my high school could get up to a G, but I recall he had issues with endurance. Some people just have a knack for playing high and I've never heard of someone who has the range who didn't want to show it off.
I think a fascination with playing high has been around for a long time. Back in ye olden days Herbert L. Clarke was playing pieces that went up to G or so and legend has it he had a solid dub C. Long before him the Michael Haydn concerto from 1763 written to be played on a handmade natural trumpet goes to B over high C. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | In my high school (and neighboring bands) musicality trumped range. Is high-note obsession universal? |
In my private teaching experience in several dozen middle and high schools, musicality wins 1st chair, but pretty much everyone wants to play high... |
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number juan Regular Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2015 Posts: 44
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny cuz two of our drum majors are trumpet players.
Last year they would get after me for taking stuff up, but now after hearing me play, they told me to go all out on the game against the rival school.
Of course there are several others who also go up, but i am the most consistent in that register. |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes as you mature as a trumpet player you begin to resent guys in the trumpet section taking stuff up octaves that isnt written. Especially when they miss a few notes or blow the phrase less than perfectly.
By college, hopefully we grow out of this habit. Also there's nothing worse than coming to the end of a chart and you know that one of the guys is gonna go after a note above his in the section. But you dont know which guy nor what note he's gonna try for. Nor (lol) which note will eventually come out.
So there you have a trainwreck in the making. Maybe three or more guys pretending to be hot-shots and the only thing certain is that it'll sound awful. As I get older I generally find it easier to exert a little authority here and there. Saying to the guys,
"Look, there's one lead player at a time in this section. Usually it's gonna be me (or 'so & so' as the case may be). When you've got the lead part or when I give it to you your first priority is to play the ink and interpret it well. The last thing you're gonna want to hear under such conditions is someone on a lower chart butcher a line he decided to take up higher".
Try and say the above politely. And if you are the lead player? Go ahead and share the book a little. Maybe even giving some of the easier charts to the 4th trumpet. So long as its within his register.
Sharing a few charts makes for a better time for the others. And if for some reason you're having a bad night some evening in the future? The band will be able to cover for your absence easier.
I had exactly this kind of problem several years ago 97-year-oldafter a bad cold sore effectively took a whole octave off my range for about a week. But having already set the guys up to potentially play lead?
Everything worked perfectly. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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number juan Regular Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2015 Posts: 44
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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We have several players on first. Most can take stuff up with me. The difference being that where they top out at around an f, i top out around a dhc. The reason they would get after me last year was cuz i was the only one who could and so i would stick out. Now that we have several, and in a band of over 250, it's really just a matter of whether or not we feel up to it. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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omelet Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I remember only one song we played for concert band in high school that were written above a C, which I think was Beowulf or something. There were C#s and Ds a few times in that one. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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You know, Lionel, some of the antics you refer to could (and should) be resolved by the conductor. As I see it, it is a leadership problem. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Lionel wrote: | Yes as you mature as a trumpet player you begin to resent guys in the trumpet section taking stuff up octaves that isnt written. Especially when they miss a few notes or blow the phrase less than perfectly. |
Especially when it's not the lead player. Play in a band currently with a guy on the 4th book that just can't stand playing what's on the page, has to take it up an octave (or to some self-imagined good alternate note) all the time, which isn't all that big a deal when it's a written C in the staff... however... he plays quite often very far out of tune when near the top of his range, and often lands on a note that's the same as someone else in the section, but at times close to a quarter-step off in pitch. Even at the best of times, unexpected chord inversions aren't all that. This doesn't happen in rehearsals, only when performing live, with his lady watching.
Yes, it has been pointed out, multiple times. Yes, it keeps happening. No, I'm not the band leader so I bite my tongue. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: Re: High range in high school trumpets? |
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number juan wrote: | I was just wondering how many high schools have trumpet players who consistently play notes above a high c.
The highest in my high school band's stand tunes for games is a high c, but being trumpets we take up as many parts as we can just for fun. Normally up to Fs and Gs above a high c, with an occasional A, and for one song a B below dhc.
Is it just my school, or do most other schools have sections that will play in that register for like half of all the music at games? |
I've heard a lot of it happening at high school games. Occasionally, the notes are even in tune. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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RandyTX wrote: | ... he plays quite often very far out of tune when near the top of his range, and often lands on a note that's the same as someone else in the section, but at times close to a quarter-step off in pitch. |
I did that once a long time ago and still can't get over it. Went for a High C but hit a false Bb. Sucked, LOL, and drew scorn from the lead player. (Professionals, too.) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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bike&ed wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | In my high school (and neighboring bands) musicality trumped range. Is high-note obsession universal? |
In my private teaching experience in several dozen middle and high schools, musicality wins 1st chair, but pretty much everyone wants to play high... |
Agreed, and I'm teaching in the same general area you may be referring to.
I do think there can be an unfortunate side affect though. Some kids get so concerned about playing with a "dark, round sound" (which is what they tend to equate to musicality....and is to some degree) that they have a tendency to hold back out of fear of fracking a note or (gasp!) getting a brighter sound. With some kids it's like pulling teeth trying to get them to fill the horn and project.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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TheLip Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2012 Posts: 57 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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In HS (small town in Michigan, 1980-83) our Marching and concert bands often used pieces written to the D and E/High C, and our Jazz Band did a lot of charts that were written to the G/High C (We did a lot of Maynard charts). There were only a few of us that could really do it, but each new class/grade seemed to have a kid or two that got there during their stint.
Cheers, _________________ Adam Velez
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Main Gear:
Schagerl H�rsdorf Heavy Gansch-horn (Bb)
Adams A2 (Bb Flugel)
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Main Mpcs:
Jim New: James Manley Jazz 1 & Jazz 4 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: |
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TheLip wrote: | . . . and our Jazz Band did a lot of charts that were written to the G/High C . . . |
Do you mean High C, two ledger lines above staff, or Double High C, an octave above that?
And consequently, one space above the staff, High G, or four ledger lines above the staff, Double high G? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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TheLip Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2012 Posts: 57 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: |
Do you mean High C, two ledger lines above staff, or Double High C, an octave above that?
And consequently, one space above the staff, High G, or four ledger lines above the staff, Double high G? |
Yes, above High C (e.g., F/High C = F over [above] High C) _________________ Adam Velez
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Main Gear:
Schagerl H�rsdorf Heavy Gansch-horn (Bb)
Adams A2 (Bb Flugel)
------------------------------
Main Mpcs:
Jim New: James Manley Jazz 1 & Jazz 4 |
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bnsd Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 126
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: |
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My lead book in high school went to a high g on occasion but above high c often. Even in high school, i knew when i would be gassed on pass on those lines. Our director brought out different charts each year based on personnel. |
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