I think I understand

dave · Regular Member Joined: 31 Jan 2002 Posts: 19

I have been at this for a couple years now (I know I am in good company) I can finally spit buzz! I do get an air pocket in the upper lip. Does anyone that plays well with SC or TCE have experience with this? Also, how far appart are your teeth (and play well with SC or TCE)? I have read about Jerome's teeth bein 1'' wide. Mine are less than but close to 1/2" Any thoughts.

tptguy · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:17 am Post subject:

Dave, First, are you saying you've been working at SC for a couple of years and gotten good results? Or, you still don't have real notable improvement in your overall playing?

Air pocket in upper lip: actually more of a "muscle pocket" if SC is being done right. That's a good sign.

Width of teeth: mine are a good 1" apart during setup and perhaps 3/4" apart during all playing 1/2" is not very much.

Best regards, Kyle

dave · Regular Member Joined: 31 Jan 2002 Posts: 19

Kyle,

This is the best results I have had so far. I started with the roll out (B.E.) which seemed to really help with my old set up which was off to the side and the bottom lip would roll under top lip while top lip took a beating from pressure as I went higher. (Mpc with chops would also shift up and to the right to the extent that it looked wierd.) I know looks dont matter and I honestly had an excellent tone. But I believed my embouchure could not take me past my current limitations. After some time not playing "my old way" muscle memory was lost and I found myself in embouchure limbo. It has been a long couple years. But I feel like I do understand it now where as for a long time I could only guess.

As for the air pocket vs muscle pocket, I call it an air pocket because there is air between the my top teeth and top lip. Is there space bettween your top lip and top teeth? I expect that the more tounge I get forward the further apart the teeth will become. I am trying to "hug the tounge" more with both bottom and top lips as I play and spit buzz.

David

tptguy · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject:

<<is air between the my top teeth and top lip>>

No, to me, there really doesn't feel like any air on the top bulge. For example, while holding a high C or G above, I can't push in and compress anything or squeeze any air out. Just feels like muscle to me. However, on my bottom lip, to the sides of the mouthpiece, it definitely feels like air. I can push that "air" out with my fingers. I would describe that as "loose corners" out away from my bottom teeth. Best regards, Kyle

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:38 am Post subject:

Dave--I also experienced a small amount of air under the top lip earlier on. Jerome's comment was not to worry about it too much but also not to let it get out of hand. If you give into this totally, I think the concern is that more and more air can get under the lips and possibly that could affect performance. I've noticed, as my TCE has strengthened, air pockets under the lips are not as noticeable. Now, it's more as Kyle has described where the bulges are muscles and not air pockets.

Bruce Lee · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:43 am Post subject:

Hey, Dave!

Q: "How far apart are the teeth... ?"

A: Far enough apart to get a full, resonant sound, and enable the "mechanism" enough room for flexibility/movement.

There is a tremendous tendency to fragmentize the embouchure, and not include all aspects of the embouchure in the discussion. This often leads to confusion, and misconception.

"Jerry Callet's teeth are an inch apart." ... So, if I keep my teeth exactly one inch apart, I'll have tremdous success? hhmmmmmm....

The jaw needs to remain flexibile, in order to accomodate the forward tongue. The higher the note, the more forward the tongue, the further apart the teeth need to be. Conversely, (no pun intended) if we play a lower register note, the teeth do not need to be quite as open. It's very difficult to talk in tangible numbers, when it comes to the embouchure. In other words, it sounds like you're sweatin' the small stuff. Experiment with the opening between your teeth, and find out what is comfortable, and where, and what sounds the best for YOU!

Keep at it, Dave!

Best always,
Bruce
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Jerry Freedman · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:21 am Post subject:

When Callet says "the teeth are about an inch apart" which teeth is he talking about, front, canines, etc?

tptguy · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:14 pm Post subject:

<<When Callet says "the teeth are about an inch apart" which teeth is he talking about, front, canines, etc?>>

For 1" he means the front teeth. But, a better statement is this one from p.9 in TCE, "A good objective is a gap of 1/2" to 3/4" between the upper and lower molars (back teeth)."