IIIA with Jaw Protruding?

[Steve A]

Hi all,

I've read a few times here about IIIAs whose lower teeth protrude past their upper teeth*, but the Encyclopedia of the Pivot System says "Type IIIA ... places generally with the jaw more protruded than the standard Jelly Roll Type III but never to such a point that the lower teeth extend beyond the uppers." (Pg. 208 - slightly edited for clarity/brevity.)

Does anyone have any experience about playing with the lower teeth protruding and any possible issues to be aware of, and/or thoughts why the Encyclopedia says it never happens?

* David Kuehn was suggested as possibly such an example here: https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96848&highlight=kuehn+jaw

[JoshMizruchi]

As I mentioned in that thread, I studied with David my last two years of high school.

Unfortunately, I didn’t really know who Reinhardt was then, so I wasn’t able to say without reservation that he fit the description from which you describe completely.

What I do know is, he was a IIIA who often played with his head in a downward position. I saw him play from two feet away many times. I remember thinking that he was a good teacher for me because our embouchures looked similar, but the truth actually was that he was the complete opposite of me, although we shared the “head down” thing.

So, why should the lower teeth not protrude too far for this type? I can only take a guess, but here’s what I’m thinking. A IIIA as we know uses more upper lip in the mouthpiece, therefore the upper lip is the anchor point. Protruding the lower teeth too far out potentially disrupts the important connection with the anchor point, making it harder to produce sound and opening the door for other placement issues.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, if someone with an embouchure like that played that way, with the lower teeth way out, it’s possible sound may not be able to occur.

Well, hopefully that did something!

Josh
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Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com

[Doug Elliott]

Matt Hall on trombone is a IIIA with a very protruded jaw and extremely high horn angle. Everything looks like he would be upstream but he's not. Unfortunately I'm never found any videos where you can see his chops, but I have seen him up close in person.

If any unusual situation is NOT in the encyclopedia, it's because Reinhardt hadn't seen it at the time he wrote it. Doesn't mean it's not possible or he didn't see it later.

[JayKosta]

[Steve A]

Thanks for the info, Josh and Doug! (And interesting questions, JayKosta.)