Difference between type III & IIIB & anchor for down

[Babe Raham]

What is the difference in dental bite/resting jaw position between type III and type IIIB. Since IIIs generally have a lower horn angle than IIIB does this mean that the type III have a bigger overbite than IIIB?
And do downstreams have their anchor on their top lip, or is their anchor on the bottom lip too? Some people said that everyone anchors on their bottom lip, while others said that downstreams anchor on their top lip.

[Doug Elliott]

Reinhardt talked about an anchor spot and control point on different lips for different types.
Despite studying with him for 10 years, that terminology never made sense to me. I don't think in terms of anchor on one lip at all.

"Standard" type III is in no way "standard" except that Reinhardt himself was that type, and so was Tommy Dorsey. Other than them, it"s extremely rare and in my opinion you will probably never see one.

Typically (as typical as you can get with only a couple of examples), it's someone with an extremely receded jaw naturally. In most cases, someone growing up now with that style of jaw would get orthodontic treatment to bring the front top teeth in and the jaw out to a more "normal" relationship, and if that person is a brass player they would end up as a different embouchure type.

I hope that answers your question.

From a dentistry perspective the reason for making bite "corrections" like that and others involve the self-cleaning aspect of a more normal structure, to avoid future decay problems.

[JayKosta]

This might be different from traditional Reinhardt methodology ...

I think the term 'anchoring' is too rigid - how rim pressure is distributed between the upper and lower lips changes depending on the pitch, loudness, etc.

Learn what works for you that ALLOWS the aperture to form and function to meet the needs of playing.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[BeboppinFool]

I seem to recall Doc telling me that Gozzo was a straight III.

I'm not sure who told me this, but they said Byron Stripling is also a III. I studied with him for two years at Manhattan School of Music and I will say that his horn angle was very low.

There's a guy in Florida named Tom Parmerter whose angle is also very low.

When a trumpet player's horn angle off of his face resembles a clarinet player, I'm always suspicious.

By the way (puts on his Reinhardt Forum moderator hat), we don't come here to espouse other's ways of teaching. People who post in multiple forums who come here to tell us how somebody other than Reinhardt taught us ought to refrain from posting those other teaching approaches (and/or opinions) here in the Reinhardt Forum. Thank you.

[/hat]

Also, I never understood Reinhardt's distinction between "anchor spot" and "control point" so I plead ignorance on that.
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[Doug Elliott]

Chris LaBarbara's angle is also quite low, but he's not a III. Angle does not define the type.

Doc told me that because of the bottom lip's rolling in action that is unique to a III, it's nearly impossible for that to happen on a trumpet because there's just not enough room in the mouthpiece It's pretty much exclusively a trombone phenomenon.

Speaking of Tom Parmerter, I tried to hire him for a gig and he never returned my calls or messages. I saw videos, and yes his angle is extremely low.

[chase1973]

Yes, Gozzo was a "straight" III. Dave told me that as did Chris. I think Herb Alpert is as well. Tom Parmerter is DEF a III. I thought Byron Stripling was a IIIB...