Help me understand cornets' niche

[kerouack]

Thank you very much.

[peanuts56]

I've only played one cornet in my lifetime. I had an old Grand Rapids Cornet that was made in the 1880's. I bought it for $25. I think I got it in 78 or 79. It played nice, and I used it on small group gigs. I did eventually have the valves replated.
I ended up giving it away about 15-17 years ago. I was running lights for a production of Music Man, and it was being used as a prop. There was a young high school girl playing trumpet in the pit. She tried it and asked if I wanted to sell it. Since I wasn't playing much and stopped using it, I just gave it to her.

[sd4f]

I play a fair bit more cornet than trumpet, I think it's ergonomically more comfortable to hold only because it's shorter, allowing hands to be closer to my mouth, and as the bell is closer to my hands, the compact form makes it easier to balance as it feels like there's less weight hanging over.

I've noticed that mouthpiece tends to be the main aspect which determines the sound, the slightly more conical nature of a cornet is probably not enough to really make a huge difference, but, it does lend itself to a rounder fatter, more mellowed sound, over a trumpet.

I think though, that once the valved trumpet started to appear, its real reason for popularity is that the sound profile it offered, which I began with just suits itself more to recording, and cutting through the mix.

This kind of made me realise that focusing a trumpet to get a "dark sound" or something along those lines is kind of pointless, if the sound you want is dark, just grab a cornet instead, make the cornet the fat sound, and the trumpet the bright sound.

However there is something I wanted to add, which is really a topic for a historian to really figure out, because this is only something I read and have no idea how true it is, but considering that trumpeters were engaged in ceremonial duties in royal courts and religious occasions in Europe, there is a suggestion that there's a class divide between trumpets and cornets. Trumpeters had their guilds and to received an income from their engagements. When the cornet started to appear, it's not like as if the trumpet repertoire changed overnight, trumpeters still played the same fanfares, and could be resistant to change, while cornet went off with its working class popularity playing virtuoso music and folk tunes.

Looking over biographies of various titans of music composition over the centuries, there tends to be a trend that while some weren't exactly wealthy, they were often middle class burghers at worst, with enough money in the family to receive an education and often were able to study music at a tertiary level. So I think classism could explain some of it, but again, this is a topic for historians to study properly.

[Rogerrr]

[stuartissimo]

[Seymor B Fudd]

Nope not long winded -although "plenty of wind" should come in handy when playing the cornet)
ANW - not longwinded just entertaining! There are cornetty ways of playing and entertaining ways of writing!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[Rogerrr]

ah...makes perfect sense...I wasn't considering the flugel effect
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Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player )

[Brassnose]

In contrast to what others posted, I find trumpet much more comfortable to hold than cornet. The valve block being so close to me makes the whole position much less relaxed than with a trumpet. Moreover, I always find it a little awkward to throw out the third slide - somehow there is always some tubing in the way of my fingers. Finally, as I hold my horns two fingers up/two fingers down, there often isn’t enough room to place the lower two fingers of the left hand below the third slide. I’d need a longer 3rd valve cap to hold a cornet comfortably.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[stuartissimo]

I find the differences in wrap (and distance to the body) helps to get in the right mindset: closer for more intimate/softer/more melodic songs. As opposed to the trumpet that just makes you want to play with energy! It's one of the reasons I like the wrap on my flugel so much: it just makes sense for ballads and such (as opposed to the common wrap on modern flugels).
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[Seymor B Fudd]

[Brassnose]

It might be personal, but it’s quite intriguing. I do like cornets and enjoy their different wraps and the slightly different tone and all that. It’s just that every time I pick up a cornet to actually play one for a longer period of time and then go back to trumpet I feel like, oh, this is a really nice and relaxed position on the trumpet.

As I am a quieter and cornet-ish sounding player even on shallow pieces anyway, I can get the cornet parts on trumpet, especially on my rotary with a Curry TC piece.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Rwwilson]

As an amateur who plays in a variety of bands I thought I would add my take on the question of cornet or trumpet. To me it comes down to what type of group I’m playing with. When I play in a big band I play a trumpet with a relatively shallow trumpet mouthpiece. When I play in a British style brass band I play a shepherds crook cornet with a deep cornet mouthpiece. The reason is that they produce the sound that the composer and director are looking for. When I play in late 19th century tribute band I play a cornet because that is what was used in that era. I actually play a 1904 Holton with its original mouthpiece that has a very deep v cup. This horn sounds nothing like a trumpet. Things only get complicated when I play with civic bands. It is common to find that the scores for these bands have both trumpet and cornet parts which can differ significantly so it seems the composer wanted both. Unfortunately most of the amateur players in these bands and also the conductors ignore these differences and the players play what they have, usually trumpets. A very good example of the different roles of the two horns can be found in Sousa’s Stars and Stripes Forever. The cornet parts contain the melody while the trumpet parts contain flourishes. I think Sousa knew what he was doing.

As an aside, when I play by myself at home I more often play cornet because I like the sound better.

[Crazy Finn]

Cornet is easier for me to hold than a Bb trumpet. I am short, my arms are short and the cornet is in a nice position.

Bb trumpet is fine as well.

I've briefly tried the valve forward designs like you see on the Olds Recording. That's not a great thing for me, personally. Might be good for taller people and / or individual with longer arms, but that's not me.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn