Cut Down a 10 1/2c to 3c?

jeirvine · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:18 am Post subject: Cut Down a 10 1/2c to 3c?

With mouthpiece makers now commonly scanning and copying pieces, has anyone cut down an existing say 7c or 10 1/2c to a 3c rim/cup? It would appear there's plenty of brass to work with. Use an existing scan to cut down the rim and cup, leave the throat and backbore, and you'd have an ersatz Mt Vernon 3c.

I've got a half dozen Mt Vernon Bach pieces that are smaller than I play, and don't fetch much on the used market. Maybe they could be re-purposed? Here's a 10 1/2c and 3c overlay from the comparator.

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Goby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652

Brass is cheap, and it's much easier to work with fresh stock rather than machine an old mouthpiece. Many old mouthpieces have throats and backbores that are drilled off center, and then you can factor in wear to the shank, pre-existing modifications, dealing with old plating, and variances in the Bach blank over time, and recutting an old mouthpiece now involves hours of prep work by a machinist before you can even start cutting. Compare that process to loading up a bar of brass stock and hitting "start" on a pre-existing CNC tool path. Some people swear that NY Bach mouthpieces are made out of a special alloy of brass and that it has a tremendous effect on the sound, but I think this is more based in superstition than fact.

It's also worth noting that the value of a Mt. Vernon 3C is almost exclusively due to the collector market rather than any merits of the actual mouthpiece. There are at least 10 different companies offering some sort of Mt. Vernon 3C replica, and none of them even come close to the price of an authentic Mt.V 3C on the secondary market. If you modified an old 10.5C, you'd have a mouthpiece that might share the same geometry with a 3C, but has none of the collector value of the real thing.

trompette229 · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203

It can certainly be done but it would cost more to have the lathe work done and plate it than to buy a new mouthpiece unfortunately.

I have bags full of 10 1/2 to 7C size mouthpieces in various condition that I need to recycle or donate as well.

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

Insensato · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Nov 2012 Posts: 180

I am fairly confident that this process does already take place and the "holy grail" scammy Mt Vernon/NY 3C/1.5C/1Cs that float around on ebay in "pristine+polished condition" for $500-$700 are often times a result of this process. Seems like someone buys a bunch of Mt. Vernon pieces for cheap, cuts out the interior to approximate a larger size, buffs off and re-stamps the # on the outside, then replates the entire thing and calls it "great condition" for $400-$700 on ebay
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jeirvine · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:08 am Post subject:

Andy Cooper · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:12 am Post subject:

https://ktcustommouthpiece.com/custom-work/
So $45 to $50 plus $10 shipping to plus $10 shipping from - so $65 to $70.

Compared to $65 new with free shipping.

Now it makes sense if you wanted a custom size like a Bach 4 1/2 or an 8 1/3.

trompette229 · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:12 pm Post subject:

Can't you just contact one of several excellent mouthpiece makers/falterers and tell them what you want? I recently had a Frankenstein combination mpc. made by one maker and a completely, designed from scratch. mpc. made by another and in each case, I didn't pay more than $200.00. Or did I miss that?
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JeffM729 · Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:34 pm Post subject:

JoeLoeffler · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243

There is some benefit to recutting a larger cup on earlier Bach mouthpieces, but only inasmuch as the early mouthpieces (I think only in NYNY, and maybe not even the later ones of those - but I can’t remember when the change occurred) are made with a different brass mixture (more lead) and they can produce a slightly different sound. Once they changed over to the standard free machining brass, there is generally no magic or benefit to reusing an old piece (until you get to the newest mouthpieces made with lead-free brass…)