Balanced Embouchure "RIPS"

ETK · Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject:

The balanced embouchure book says on page 113 concerning advanced lip slur exercise #10 about rips:

“At first upward rips tend to be easier than downward rips because students do them with excessive mouthpiece pressure. The notes will often more or less click into place as the lips compress when pressure is applied. However, the opposite doesn’t work. The lips do not continuously “unflex” as mouthpiece pressure reduces. Excess pressure “freezes” the lips, causing the notes on the way down to stick or skip. Using more embouchure and less pressure is how the exercise evolves. When done correctly with the right proportions of lips/tongue/air, the notes easily flow out of the horn, both up and down, a perfect example of the continuously flexing embouchure advocated in this book.”

After two months with BE I am doing fairly well on the exercises up to advanced lip slur #9. I can get good snaps and sound close to the CD up to advanced lip slur #9 (but not close at all to the CD for #10 the “rips”).

The rips for me are just the opposite of the above quote. Rips are hard to do going up but easy to reverse and go down.

Am I on track and just need to be patient and keep at it or is this an indication that I am off track in some way?

NetTrumpeterBRA · Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject:

ETK,

Remember: "When the lips are more or less on the right position they already know what to do "

Be patient and don't jump steps !!! If the rips don't sounds good, your lips aren't on the right position !! back to the previous exercises (especially the Roll Out and Roll In) and try to sound like the guys on CD !!!

Just my two cents !!

Good luck !

Otavio
São Paulo - BRAZIL (South America)

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:03 am Post subject:

Mike,

If you can do #9, then #10, at least the first few, should be doable.

What happens when you go up? In other words, what is hard?

Your answer may - or may not! - help us figure out what is going on.

Jeff

ETK · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:03 am Post subject:

Thanks for responding. Background: Been playing for 4 months after many years layoff. Been practising "Balanced Embouchure" (BE) everyday for 2 months and improving.

I can do the first three roll-out pedal tone exercises. I do the lip clamp once a day and do the squeak etc better and better.

I can do the high G even C and roll down. The tongue on lips is becoming more natural (struggled with this). I do every advanced lip slur exercise everyday from #1 through #9. I can get some really good "snaps" like on the CD until the last one on #9 which are weak.

I can do the first three lines of rips on #10 but not very well. Going up I may miss a note or stall out on a note or they are muffled and I sometimes overshoot the top note. Sometimes they work a liitle bit. I do not match the CD going up. But once I get to the top note I don't have much problem coming down and sound like the CD. (I started the rips a week ago.) I thought maybe I was using mouthpiece pressure going up and then releasing the pressure on the top note before going down. But I thought that if I was using mouthpiece pressure to get to the top note and then released the pressure I would lose the note. But I don't lose the note. It's there and I easily get all the notes coming down. I monitor myself and I do not think I am using pressure. One fear I have is that maybe I am just doing the lip clamp and squeak and then not really using BE when playing the exercises. I get the air pockets when doing the exercises but not as much when trying the rips. I feel like I am pinching the lips together more than "rolling-in" when I am trying the rips.

Anyway, I am excited about BE. I am really impressed with the kids on the CD. (Are some of them pictured on the cover of the book?) I think people think that if these kids do BE and they get these kind of results then you know that you are not wasting your time. I hear about people trying different methods and do not improve very much after years of practice. I am too old for that. Plus I want to make sure my young nephew starts on an effective program.

Appreciate your teaching, Mike

[ This Message was edited by: ETK on 2004-04-08 11:05 ]

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject:

Mike,

<<<One fear I have is that maybe I am just doing the lip clamp and squeak and then not really using BE when playing the exercises. I get the air pockets when doing the exercises but not as much when trying the rips. I feel like I am pinching the lips together more than "rolling-in" when I am trying the rips.>>>

It depends on whether or not you end up using the fully rolled in lip setup. Most do not (over 50%). In that case, it means that you are going to feel the influence of the roll in exercises, rather than adopt the full-blown rolled in setup.

So your question probably is, HOW MUCH of the roll-in setup should you experience when doing the upper slurs? All I can say is, as you do them over time, and pay attention to what you are doing, the lips will gradually go with what gets the best results. Some of this is based with how well the roll in exercises are going, and how comfortable you feel experimenting with doing that setup during the lip slur exercises.

I hope that made sense!

It basically sounds to me like you need a tad more strength, and a bit of experimentation. Still pretty early in the game.

<<<Anyway, I am excited about BE. I am really impressed with the kids on the CD. (Are some of them pictured on the cover of the book?)>>>

Yes. Three of them are on the CD. The forth was unavailable during the week that I did the recordings.

By this summer, I plan to re-record all of the exercises using a mostly new crop of students. Of the ones that recorded before (but still currently 17 or under), a few want their chance to show off on the higher exercises. Can't argue with that!

Jeff

jarrelainen · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Aug 2003 Posts: 264

Jeff: LOL!

"By this summer, I plan to re-record all of the exercises using a mostly new crop of students. Of the ones that recorded before (but still currently 17 or under), a few want their chance to show off on the higher exercises. Can't argue with that! "

I think that is awesome! It is inspiring and humbling to hear those kids on the CD produce that range with THE sound.
Keeps atleast me working and knowing that maybe someday I can too!

Keep the good work up!

/JK

ETK · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:01 am Post subject:

I tried doing the slurs going up one good note at a time with a good snap on the top note and then proceeded with the rip going down and then did the rip going up. etc. I made some good improvement on the rip exercises over the weekend after this.

Tell the kids on the CD they are helping a lot of trumpet players.

What did people do to help their playing before the internet to discover things like BE?