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Billy B
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Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
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 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Getting braces off and a degradation in range |
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| AlexBazinet wrote: | | This is a topic I'm certain is pretty well worn, but I think my situation is pretty unique. I got my braces off about a month ago now. From day one I was pretty much able to play with the same tone and intonation as before the only real change was in endurance, and range. Before getting my braces off I could play pretty consistently up to the double E to triple G range after getting them off I had a hard limit of an Eb, not double Eb high Eb. The problem I'm having, and the reason for this post, is that my range has been decreasing. Almost everyday I have been doing long tones both with and without a drone, as well as lipslurs, in addition to the Caruso 6 Notes/ 2nds. I have tried taking break days I've put heat on my chops ,but I've been losing range and tone in the upper register as the days go by. Currently I can only play up to a high C with a pretty wimpy sound. Getting my range back is not a super pressing issue as most of the playing I do is combo and the jazz band I am currently in I am 2nd trumpet, but it is concerning non the less. |
I have a great deal of experience with students and braces. It all boils down to the fact that in essence you are playing with a different mouth when you get braces, then again when they come off. You are undoubtedly unconsciously making changes in your approach to the instrument to compensate for the "new mouth". The one thing that remains constant through these changes is the sound. So I have my students double down on their focus on sound. If that high C sounds wimpy, I would bet the notes just below C are showing signs of being wimpy too. Those are the notes you should be working to develop. The other thing I see in most students when things go bad is they get too involved with analysis of the physical aspects. This can not only cause undue tension, but moves the focus away from music and sound creating even more problems. Usually problems with breathing. So I have my students also remember to take a full breath and release it in an energized, relaxed manner.
I don't wish to get in a pissing match here, so if you have questions shoot me a PM.
BTW, I did listen to your playing and you sound great!
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Andy Del
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| AlexBazinet wrote: | | Andy Del wrote: | Your solution is to take a step back and rest.
When my students are getting braces, or having them removed, I get them to take 2 weeks off playing, surrounding the change - or even more. Then they can ‘restart’ their playing.
I’d guess from your description, you just kept in and expected everything to work the way it did. Issue is, there was a profound change made to your mouth. You need time to work around the change instead of forcing things.
Get a GOOD trumpet teacher. Talk to the directors of everything you play in and get their co-what you need to do. (Or change ensembles, complain to the principal / school board, etc) Give yourself time and go slowly. You will be back again. If you do it well, you’ll be back even stronger than before!
Cheers
Andy |
The problem with stopping is I have a weekly gig I've committed to and do one off gigs almost every week and I cant just stop because I use the money to pay off my horn. I have a very good lesson teacher but he's been out since the day after I got my braces for sugery |
So the problem with playing is enough for a cry out for help, but not enough for you to actually fix the problem? If you lose the gigs due to playing issues, then things are going from where they are to much worse. If you were out of town for a family emergency for two weeks would all your gigs go forever?
It’s great you’ve got a great teacher… not so great they are unavailable (which is part of being a great teacher).
You need to choose between playing well in a short period of time, or struggling for much longer / possibly looking at a long term issue…
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Wilktone
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 727
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In principle, with four independent and one dependent variable, a better choice would be to use ANOVA. |
Oh, there were more independent and dependent variables covered in the entire study, those were just the ones related to tooth structure. But yes, in principle you could use different statistical methods to analyze the data.
Overall, my study's main purpose (for me) was to see if there were distinguishing characteristics that a teacher could use to look closely at a student's anatomy and suggest what embouchure technique would be most successful for that particular student. While collecting data I thought that I was on the right track. When the stats were analyzed, I learned that I was a victim of my own confirmation bias. It's easy to fool ourselves into thinking that we are seeing patterns that aren't there. I highly doubt that anyone can simply look at a student's teeth and say anything meaningful about how that student will play.
Billy, I think your thoughts are a fine strategy. Especially for someone that we haven't been able to watch play. Focusing on the sound and breathing are definitely important. Our goal is to be focused on making music, so we absolutely must practice doing so.
| Quote: | | You are undoubtedly unconsciously making changes in your approach to the instrument to compensate for the "new mouth". |
We agree that this is most likely the trigger for the OP's trouble. Personally, I prefer to address issues directly. If the problem is the embouchure technique isn't working correctly for the student's face, I try to offer suggestions that will get right to the problem.
Again, focus the sound and music isn't bad and in this particular situation where we're offering advice without seeing the student play, is not likely to directly make things worse. On the other hand, suggesting the wrong advice regarding his embouchure technique might be exactly opposite of what he needs to do.
| Quote: | | You need to choose between playing well in a short period of time, or struggling for much longer / possibly looking at a long term issue… |
I'm not certain that taking time off is really the best solution here. Sure, tackling the issue with fresh chops can help. But assuming that there is some flaw in the student's playing technique, it's very likely that this is an issue that won't go away simply by taking time off. What I want to avoid is unconscious trial and error. That usually takes longer and often leads to covering up the problem, only to have it return later.
Often times the correction is conceptually simple and easily implemented. Other times it's more difficult, but I feel that when we can identify what mechanics are not working well we can make targeted suggestions that don't require taking much time off.
Now if there's pain or injuries present, that's a good reason to take time off (and consult with a medical professional).
Dave
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilktone wrote: | | I'm not certain that taking time off is really the best solution here. Sure, tackling the issue with fresh chops can help. |
One minor quibble with an otherwise very well thought out response. I believe a massive reduction in time-on-the-face is useful in most transitions. The neural pathways have to be tweaked to adapt to a monstrous change like getting braces on or off. But yes, playing little by little, helps those pathways adapt.
We would do this in any transition, different crank lengths on a bicycle, new running shoes (rotate them in for shorter runs), etc. We are learning to coordinate again and rarely do we resume with the same intensity we once had.
The stress of getting "right back to it" in the OPs case seems to be detrimentally affecting progress in the absence of educated instruction. |
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