Ability to Focus and Work Ethic Towards Practice

[trickg]

I was pondering some things today regarding my skill level at various things I choose to do, and why I've been able to be somewhat successful in my endeavors. I wonder if it's simply a matter of being able to focus, my abilities for self-analysis and correction, and having a strong work ethic towards practice and improving.

For those who may not be familiar with me - I don't post much anymore - I'll be 54 years old this year, and I've been a working trumpet player since I was 17 years old. I spent 22 years of service in the military band program in one capacity or another, and have freelanced as a trumpet player doing all kinds of things - brass quintet, big band, rock band, Latin Band...

I also dive headfirst into a lot of other things and have managed to achieve a decent level of success.

I'm also a drummer - been doing that for over 20 years at this point, and for what I do, I'm pretty solid.

However, I also shoot - most recently I've taken up shooting trap - and I'm also succeeding there as well, in spite of the fact that it had been decades since previously shooting a shotgun.

One of the observations I've made at the trap field is that trap shooters are not unlike trumpet players. They'll throw all kinds of money at the endeavor in an effort to shoot better - high priced shotguns, custom fitted stocks, adjustable stocks, all kinds of choke tubes, all the way down to trying to find the right ammo - there's always a dispute between #7.5 shot and #8 shot, and there's disparity between brands, velocity, etc.

When I decided I wanted to get more involved in Janauary, I bought a decent shotgun - not a cheap one, and not a high priced one, but I bought something that was going to be high enough quality that it would hold up over time.

At this point I'm tied for 3rd in the trap league my wife and I joined, (I'm within striking distance of 1st or 2nd) and I'm outshooting guys who have been doing this for years. Why? What's different?

I'm not younger with better reflexes. I'm not more experienced. (to be fair, I'm not unfamiliar with shooting - I shoot rifles and pistols fairly regularly - just not shotguns) My eyesight certainly isn't better! My distance vision is worse than it has ever been!

I think it's possible that because I've been a lifelong musician, I simply have the ability to focus on what I'm doing, I'm good at self-analysis, and I practice - I'm at the trap field 2-3x a week to dial in what I'm doing, focusing on reinforcing what I'm doing well, and working on the things that need to improve.

Anyway, those are some random thoughts for the day.

As trumpet players, we spend so much time talking about equipment and how to approach fundamentals, that we tend to forget that the ability to focus, and the ability for self-analysis and correction are also skills we need to work on, and it might be just as important as the mechanics.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Andy Del]

You are most likely a long term working musician AND developing your trap shooting skills at a pace due to being able to self analyse and focus.

There's always a reason one can't do 'something'. I know my weaknesses and how I didn't address them early on. What some may say are my strengths, I did focus on way back and are second nature.

The other facet you haven't mentioned is honesty: being honest with one's self and having the guts to take the next step in addressing the issue at hand.

Great thought bubble for the morning!
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[trickg]

One of the things I've struggled with over the years on this board has been the fact that I have always taken issue with the threads where some younger, or less experienced player comes on, and the knee-jerk response of so many has always been:

"get a teacher!"

I struggle with that idea because I've had very little in the way of formal training, and very little in the way of private instruction, and yet, I consistently hold my own with players with pedigrees much higher than mine. An example would be the last orchestra concert I played. Granted, I'm not the section principle, but of the four of us, I was the only one without a degree in music, and two of them have masters degrees, and yet, I'm not out of place at all in that section.

With that said, it has been pointed out by several here on the board that when I say that the average players issues can be worked out by themselves in the practice room with some good method books, that not everyone has the ability to do that, hence the "get a teacher!" comment that arises so often.

People have also said that the average trumpet student doesn't have the ability that you and I have - to focus in, assess their performance, and dial in on the things that need to be worked on, but I submit that in the earlier stages, just simply practicing to try to make things sound correct and musical is enough, provided the student can honestly self-asses.

Touching back on the subject of shooting trap, I may come to a point where if I ever want to get over the hump to where I can break 50-100 straight (and competition shooters can - I know a guy who didn't win a competition because he broke 199 out of 200, and lost to a guy who hit all 200) I may have to get some lessons, or possibly do some work so that my gun fits a bit better.

With that said, I'm not doing poorly - I'm consistently hitting 20+ out of 25, and managed a 23 and 24 yesterday. (To be fair, my low round was a 20) For the moment I'm just going to keep working on what I'm doing. My Achilles heel seems to be hard right crosses from position 5 - I'm about 50/50 on those when I'm presented with them, and I don't think I'm leading them quite enough.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[JayKosta]

About the need or value of -

[Destructo]

I think the reasons most people need a teacher - a good teacher - are many.

I think with the trumpet, SO much has been said, written, taught etc about the mechanics of how to play. Much of it is flat out contradictory. So much of one's time trying to improve is spent trying to work out which pieces of information are relevant (1) right at one's current level of ability (2) that actually works for the student (3) that will work long term, and not just provide a temporary benefit that disappears.

A teacher is someone who is able to observe in real time, notice what's not working and can try and help you work out why and what to do about it. I don't think this is easy to do for most people because whatever their problem, the possible solutions are many, and most are probably not actually the right solution.

I also think that many/most students, especially before about the age of about 16, don't *really* have the ability to self-analyse very well. I do a lot of music teaching across a bunch of different areas/instruments, and I remember when I first started teaching I had this idea that, by and large, kids were pretty much equal in their abilities. But I pretty quickly realised it wasn't true.
I encountered 8 year olds who could cover twice or three times as much content in 30 minutes and still remember it perfectly a week later. And I had some 15 year olds that you'd go over the same content week after week, explaining it in different ways, creating mnemonics etc to try to get the information to stick. You'd start to make some headway, then they have a couple of weeks away during school holidays, and it be back to square one.

Unfortunately, we aren't all born equal in skills or ability. I think those with some aptitude often think "Well, I worked hard. I did x,y,z. If others just did the same, they'd be doing as well as I would."

In terms of shooting, I have zero knowledge or experience, but I'd wager that as an experienced drumer, your timing and co-ordination across your entire body is pretty significantly better than many of those you're comparing yourself with. You also have an entire lifetime of Practising How to Practice. There are a lot of skills and ways of thinking that at this stage will be pretty deeply wired in to your brain. Other folks are unlikely to have that.

For example, this type of brain exercise has been going around social media a fair bit recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwVp9-fw17A

And it's something that most people will probably struggle to do immediately. However, I woulde wager that most musicians would be able to get the knack for it much, much quicker because they're going to go: "This is tricky. I better slow it down and practise it." And 5 minutes later, they've got it.
Where as most non-musicians people will just keep trying to do it, and fail to do it, and never actually get all that much better unless they instinctively slow down and really work on it. Many people when they have that instinct to slow down will do it, slow it down once, get it, then speed it back up, it wont work and they go "stuff it, this is too hard."

So you're not wrong, but also, it's probably not quite as easy for non-musicians to focus and self-analyse the way you're describing.

[Dayton]

[cgaiii]

There are people that are very good at self-teaching and self-learning. There are others that are not. One size does not fit all. There are skills that some people naturally self teach better than others. Even within the same person and even if that person is good at self teaching one thing, he/she might not be good at self teaching another thing.
Others have had bad experiences with teachers, and that puts them off of finding instruction.
Even if you are a good independent learner and self-teach well, you can often benefit from having a teacher or mentor or learning companion that shares knowledge with and observes you in ways you can't do yourself.
You may be a very accomplished trumpet player or skeet shooter from teaching yourself, but one honest question to ask yourself is "would I be even better or have gotten there faster if I had a teacher." The answer may not be a simple yes or no. How one benefits from a teacher depends a lot on how one meshes with that teacher and how well that teacher can change according to the individual student. But there are almost always benefits.
I too am very much inclined toward self-teaching, partially from some bad experiences with teachers. It served me well in my profession (in the days when there was little in the way of formal education for what I did). It served me well in trumpet playing, but accidentally getting a mentor also helped. I am a driven learner, willing to look carefully at what I do. That does not mean I can see everything, and I certainly learned that after years of self-teaching trumpet and then working with someone.
Other things, I do not think I could teach myself. For example, I am not a good kinesthetic learner, so when I agreed with my wife to learn social dancing, I felt a teacher was the best route. When I learned Japanese, I started our with classes but they moved too slowly for me, so I got the materials I needed and went to work on my own. Of course, living in Japan made that possible.
Other things, auto and tractor mechanics, copper plumbing (no longer useful), electrical work, etc. have been easy to self teach to the extent I need them.
So I can see a real justification for people suggesting getting a teacher. It is a great short-cut for most people, and it is the easiest answer to many questions for new or comeback players. In the end it is complicated, but it is a good place to start.
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[stuartissimo]

Wanted to comment on this but most of my thoughts/experiences have already been voiced by others.

I've been working on things on my own for a few years, but during that time I occasionally sought out a teacher for the reasons mentioned by other posters. I found it quite hard to adjust, as often they chose to focus on aspects of my playing that I experienced to be unhelpful or even harmful to my overall progress at the time. The main issue was, as it has been in the past, communication. The ideas, goals, focus and dedication of the teacher may not match the student's; which makes for unproductive lessons if that occurs. And being an introverted individual, I struggled to create productive student-teacher relationship.

Describing a teacher as a 'cheat code' is very accurate imho. A teacher allows a student to skip researching/experimenting and get straight to what's important. It also helps to avoid setting up poor habits that become major roadblocks later on (overblowing & mouthpiece pressure for example). However, using a 'cheat code' that simply tells a person what to do also risks berefting the student of the experience gained by failing, and learning how to overcome obstacles on their own. That's not neccesarily a bad thing, especially early on for younger students. And the thing with cheat codes is that games are usually designed to be beatable without them, but it can take a lot longer, with a lot more frustration, and to some, the game is impossible to finish without them. Sounds a lot like trumpet playing to me.
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[trickg]

I think that you all brought some great points to the conversation with a lot of great responses here, and I wanted to touch on a couple of other ideas that have been pointed out.

[Destructo]

[Brassnose]

Interesting thread, first short answer. I don’t think the focus thing and practice slow things is a musicians thing. It’s a personality thing.

There are people who are good at many things exactly because they can focus, regardless of the field. One can (self) train to focus and to have a smart approach, but there are people who will always fail because they get side tracked and try to short cut things.

A friend of ours was among the last 200 candidates (starting out from over 20k initial applicants) to qualify for astronaut training a few years back. This is focus, discipline, and the ability to question your skills at a level that few people ever achieve.

Of course, some fields attract a certain personality and you will find similar characters in certain fields. I’m a natural scientist and while there is the flashy type as well, most people are hard working, dedicated, and approachable — they would not have gotten to their positions if they did not deliver results.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[steve0930]

Hello
I have been monitoring Google AI development over the last year re the Horn. A year ago every question (to for example "How do I form Embouchure" ) had "Get a Teacher" in the Answer. Now the AI expertise has evolved (surprise surprise!)
In answer to the question "Should I get a Teacher to learn the Trumpet?" you get a balanced answer with a conclusion:

AI says

[epoustoufle]

[trickg]

Again, there has been some awesome discussion out of this, and the conclusion I take from it is that a dedicated person will usually find a way - even if it means doing a lot of self-reflection, going through a slew of teachers to find someone who can reach them for what they need out of it, or even a combination of the two.

My wife has a saying that I have always enjoyed, and it pertains to both students, and some of the parents of students she had during her career as an educator:

If you think it's important, you'll find a way, if you don't, you'll find an excuse.

It's kind of funny in a way - this thread comes at a point in my life where I'm considering hanging up the horn for good. I'm not sure why this is - I enjoy playing, but anymore I don't enjoy the work I have to put into it in order to remain at a playing level I'm happy with. That, and there are a bevy of other things where I'd rather spend my time.

Oh - for what it's worth, I've also embarked upon creating a business for myself as a voiceover artist - yet one more thing where I seem to have a bit of a natural affinity, as well as the ability to focus and learn what I need to in order to be successful.

With that in mind, I DO have a coach for my VO endeavors. I don't talk to him a lot though. We had the initial discussion and assessment to see if I had the voice-tone, talent, ability, etc, we did some light coaching to learn certain techniques - target words, inflections, tempo, style, etc...

And then I built a recording booth, obtained the requisite hardware and software, and started booking jobs. My coach is available to me if I need him, but the more I do it, the more I learn about how to do it. My coach told me when we were recording the demos that one of my biggest assets is that I'm easy to direct. I attribute that 100% to my career as a musician where being directed was part of it all along the way.

Good stuff everyone! Keep it coming!
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Brassnose]

Looks like the point of not having fun anymore comes up at a certain age I’m only a little younger than you, Patrick, and have had the same thoughts sneaking up on me: I have 15 years to go and there are certain things in my work that just tell me, for a few years now, I should look for something else.

There are other things, however, that I really like (most people around me, for one) and that make me want to continue. The job is ultra-diverse, challenging, and if I get to the bottom of it, very interesting. The problem being, I get stuck in nonsense side-track jobs most of the time.

So, rather than leaving, I have started to push those side jobs at other people who pushed them at me for the last 20 years . It’s amazing how much time and energy I can suddenly invest in the actual heart of my job — but it’s not a physical job like trumpeting. As long as my brain works I should be able to do it (or find something else …).

On the trumpet side of things, I feel like I have never played better than just now. Reason being I in fact have a teacher, but also I have a MUCH better practice routine and a much better understanding of trumpet mechanics. Plus, see above, pushing away crap jobs to those who caused the initial problem has freed up significant time slots to actually practice. I’m still an amateur but feel like I am actually an asset to the orchestra rather than a challenge.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[trickg]

[abontrumpet]

[trickg]

[abontrumpet]

[trickg]