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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5698 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Something to consider, when I really started to dig into my multiple tonguing, I didn't take off trying to do everything in all registers. I started off on 2nd line G at moderate volume and as relaxed as possible.
That was my center.
Every time I'd start a practice where I was going to dig into multiple tonguing, I'd start on G and work just the G until the articulations started to tighten up, and only then would I expand higher and lower, sometimes in scale patterns, or sometimes by individual notes.
It's true that as I'd ascend or descend the tongue position has to change, syllables need to shift, etc. Those are really small changes that are probably best approached by feel rather than in a more academic way of thinking about "Ta Ka" or "Tu Ku" or "Ti Ki" or whatever other syllables come to mind.
I say all of this, and frankly my multiple tonguing isn't great at this point - certainly not what it once was - but I don't work it like I used to, nor do I play as much as I used to, but I could probably get it back pretty quickly because I know what I did to develop it initially. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9069 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:44 am Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | I got more traction . . . by using the syllables "Da Ga." That winds up being a more of a legato articulation, but it helped to keep the air moving, which is important to developing the technique. . |
Agree, although I used Du-Gu. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:05 am Post subject: |
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When the great Mendez was learning how to tongue, by his own admission his double tonguing was terrible.
He learned it by walking around town going tu-ku, tu-ku most of the day.
The locals called him the Tu-ku tu-ku Kid.
I guess I was lucky. Double tonguing and triple tonguing have never been a real problem since high school. Good teachers and a bit of talent.
I practiced slowly and sped it up. And I practiced a lot.
Very little comes easy on the trumpet- or any other instrument for that matter - without some solid practice.
R. Tomasek |
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Mnc Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 256 Location: Reno, Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I find using Ti-Ki gives me a faster, cleaner articulation for most all my double and triple tonguing possibly because, as was mentioned previously, everyone's structure is different. Experimentation should let you know which variation suits you best. _________________ Oakes Celebration
Monette B6S-1
GR 66C* |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9069 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Mnc wrote: | I find using Ti-Ki gives me a faster, cleaner articulation for most all my double and triple tonguing possibly because, as was mentioned previously, everyone's structure is different. Experimentation should let you know which variation suits you best. |
The OP is talking in fundamental terms. For me, the Du-Gu helped me keep the air flowing while T-Ki could become brittle and interrupt the air flow, obstructing what I was trying to achieve with the air flow in the first place. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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mograph Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2020 Posts: 122
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I think that the phonetic articulations (e.g. "ti ki") are only a rough guide, a beginning. Like most things in trumpet pedagogy, we need to start with it, then pressure-test variations while actually playing the darn instrument.
For me, "denting the air" works as an image, but again, only as a start. Yes, the tongue has to move back and forth, but how hard, how soft, how high and how low depends on the context. Also, focusing too much on the tongue is a mistake to me, making the movements clumsy: I like to focus on how the lips are responding to the air-denting (or stopping). That keeps the tonguing light, for me anyway.
I saw a video where a trumpet player said that she makes tongue contact in different places, depending on the context: sometimes on the alveolar ridge, or behind the lower teeth, or the roof of the mouth.
There's no orthodoxy, except that which allows you to play well, eh? _________________ 1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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herbievantetering Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2023 Posts: 23
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 4:12 am Post subject: compressions |
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You are right, compressions is not entirely correct, it should be positions or slots. I was refering to perhaps slotting "correctedness" between targets.
For example: Arturo Sandoval or Allen Vizutti.
However, you still go from one note to another where there is still a (slight) difference in compression. If you approach this similar to Arban, you might also develop more technique.
Last edited by herbievantetering on Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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herbievantetering Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2023 Posts: 23
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 4:15 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mograph"]I tongue contact in different places, depending on the context: sometimes on the alveolar ridge, or behind the lower teeth, or the roof of the mouth.
There's no orthodoxy, except that which allows you to play well, eh?[/quote]
Roof of the mouth and behind lower teeth is wrong; it should be, as Arban or Miles states, a "spit" attack of the tongue "release" between the lips or "ti" or "tu" syllables or "release" TCBE (Tongue Controlled Balanced Embouchure) attack.
The 'tu ku tu ku' gives you a more mellow tone.
The 'ti ki ti ki" gives you a more articulated tone. |
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