Do reverse leadpipe horns require more air?

[Rhondo]

Hello Everyone

All else being equal, does a reverse leadpipe require more air from the player as opposed to a trumpet with standard configuration?

Phrased a little differently, does it tend to be easier to play longer passages in one breath with the standard configuration? Does a standard config trumpet tend to be more responsive, quicker to speak the note?

Are there other single factors with the design or construction of a horn more important in this regard?

[Dayton]

There may be an empirical answer, but my take on this question is "it depends." First, it is difficult to make a pure comparison. In the case of Bachs, for instance, the LR configuration, for many years, came standard with a lightweight body. The lightweight body is often perceived to make the horn more responsive, but in and of itself it has nothing to do with the leadpipe configuration.

Second, players have differing preferences for resistance due to how they play, their mouthpiece, etc. The LR configuration is often perceived to be more "open." If you prefer a more resistant set up, you might find yourself blowing harder. If you prefer a more open set up, you probably won't.

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
Reverse leadpipes, moves the obstruction in the pipe tube forward/longer. To me, it makes the horn slot differently. So, you might take this 'feel,' as taking more air. At this rate, you like or don't like how the horn plays, based on your prior feeling on your regular horn.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[Jerry]

I think it is misleading to look at how a trumpet manufacturer designed one specific piece of the instrument without looking at the rest of the instrument design to anticipate how an instrument will play.

[p76]

A reversed leadpipe, generally speaking, will make the trumpet feel more "open", which can mean it feels like it needs more air - although it doesn't...

I tend to think of it as meaning the player is more open to do more with the air they are using. IMHO the effect is more on slotting than anything else - the trumpets I own with a RL have wider slots than those that don't, given the same bore size.

e.g. my YTR634 (RL) has wider slots than my Kanstul 700 (normal leadpipe) although both have the same bore size (0.460). I would say the slotting on the YTR is similar to my Kanstul 1001 which has a bore size of (0.464) and normal leadpipe.

I know that the leadpipe is not the only thing that is different on these trumpets.

My 2c
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[kehaulani]

And if that reverse leadpipe is on a trumpet with "normal" configuration or on a horn with step bore? The leadpipe's only one part of the equation.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet

[Tony Scodwell]

The new Scodwell/Vax trumpet was made to this configuration when Mike Vax and I spent much time together to determine the final design.

Of course I looked at previous horns he had endorsed over the years and used this as a starting point for the trumpet I was to make for him. The reverse leadpipe design was chosen as on his previous trumpets and to me, the overall feel was very much in line with my Scodwell USA trumpets which have the standard layout. The main difference on the new model was a semi-round tuning slide crook as opposed to the square bend style I have been using which did tend to open up the blow somewhat more. Different strokes and all that. To me, bore is the most determining factor in the "blow" and the overall design has to be in balance with the components working together in harmony. Again, extensive play testing seems to be an advantage.

Tony Scodwell

www.scodwellusa.com

[cbtj51]

As others have said, many factors determine the specific characteristics of every horn, even when comparing the same model. From my personal, admittedly limited experience, no 2 horns are the same, even regarding the oft referenced consistency of the Yamaha offerings, though this is possibly only in the mind of a, at best, devoted amateur player such as myself.

I suspect that alteration of many, if not all, relevant build components will thereby change the playing characteristics of any given example to some degree. Mouthpiece components (as well as, clocking), water key style and snugness, bottom and top valve cap weight, valve alignment, blueprinting, etc., is a player specific experience! Play what works for you!

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
_________________
'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[OldSchoolEuph]

No

The airflow through a horn is determined by the delta-pressure across the throat of the mouthpiece.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Rhondo]

[Daniel Barenboim]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[kehaulani]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[Divitt Trumpets]

No.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets

[JWG]

No Leadpipe should require more or less air than any other, because all brass instruments come with "air included."

As long as you have a vibration sustaining the standing wave, a trumpet does not require any additional air to trigger the sound. There exist numerous experiments that demonstrate the physics of this principal by using a mouthpiece with a hole on the side of the cup and a rubber membrane across the throat or at the end of the shank.

The resistance of the air gets determined by the diameter of the throat of the mouthpiece.

All other variables being equal, if one trumpet appears to require more air than another due to having a different lead pipe, then you have become sensitive to some other aspect of how different lead pipes affect the vibration of air within a trumpet in which the standing wave forms.

The ease with which a standing wave forms and remains in tune reflects a certain amount of effort on the players part.

Check out the following website: https://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.com/pilczuk-pipes

The lack of a step in longer reverse lead pipes can make one feel that the pipe makes certain notes easier to sound and keep in tune than others.

In my opinion, this topic deserves much more research and objective testing.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF