Loudness, strings, and singers

[walter]

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 08:13 ]

[_Don Herman]

Resonates with me. And matches one of the things my teachers works on in my lessons. Essentially, the exercise is to start with a nice, full sound and a moderate to moderately loud volume, then try to keep that same sound "intensity" as we dwindle to pp and then to nothing. It's a mental game which requires careful control of airflow and chops as well as keeping the sound you want to achieve firmly in mind (softer, not less full or less intense). Hard to describe, but try it!

You'd be amazed (at least, I was;) ) at how well a full, centered sound will project even when played quietly.

FWIW - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Pat]

I remember Gilbert Johnson's effective use of backing off the note. Although not in the orchestral setting there is an interesting example of it on the Gabrieli recording with the Philadephia, Cleveland and Chicago brass sections. On the Canzona which has the echo effect (I think the word "echo" is in the name) and uses three bass choirs, in the last 3 or 4 measures the first trumpets play a concert G scale, one right after another. Johnson goes first, I believe followed by Herseth and then Adlestein. You can hear Johnson hit the G and then immediately back off the note whereas neither of the others does it.----I remember asking my teacher about that and he said it was a matter of style. I guess Johnson felt he should hit the note and then get out of the way of the next G scale.---Of course since it was Herseth playing it, maybe he didn't have to.

[Emb_Enh]

resonates with me too...an old theatre trick...useful also to teach to kids that to play loud does'nt necessarily mean TONS more air!

Roddy o-iii<O
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[PC]

Yes, good trick to have so you can survive on mean works, or let other instruments have their say through your sustained notes.

Somehow though, the magic is lost if the sizzle does not drill a hole in the far back wall throughout a climax passage, in my opinion. In these cases, it might be healthier to have an assistent 1st, as we're not in the circus business but trying to do some music!

On the other hand, I've heard very good, strong players which disappear in a loud/high tutti because of not hard enough attacks. Getting through the other instruments requires another playing technique than playing a solo recital. Again, pitch centre (max resonance) is a crucial concept. I remember playing second in a free-lance assembled orchestra in Paris a few years ago, doing the Brahms German requiem. This is hardly associated with chop busting repertoire, nevertheless I was stunned by the sheer power and focus of the 1st trp in the few relatively high lying and ff places. But the guy didn't seem to make any noticeable effort, it was all focused, efficient sound production, with the understanding that to get anything past the string barrier, ff had to be really loud.

So to sum up: to sound good in tutti writing, emphasised attacks are more important than sustained dynamic intensity. When sustained ff playin IS called for, you'd better have an efficient set-up and good projection, still not neglecting well defined attacks.

Sorry for the bandwidth,
Pierre.

[histrumpet]

PC,
I think you are absolutely correct. It is common to hear players talk about these things in a jazz setting but not so much in an orchesteral setting. I guess deep down most players know that a good focus in sound is a product of an efficient set up but just don't give it the recognition it deserves. Yours is a very insightful post.

[_Don Herman]

For an interesting perspective on loudness in orchestras, and a number of other thought-provoking (or, just provoking! ) articles, check out Douglas Yeo's site:

http://www.yeodoug.com/

He's bass trombone with the BSO and has a number of interesting articles on his site.

Toodles - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Yoinks]

Yes I would have to agree that the vast majority of orchestral players find issues in volume plaguing them, because of an underdeveloped sense of attack strength, and using space, and articulation to their advantage. You get a trumpet section, play a piece, and then listen to recording, and even though they were playing their brains out, you can't hear them. Often you can use half the volume, but more pronounced attacks and releases to cut through the ensemble, and create a better balance through not needing to play so loud.