Bell Position in Orchestra

[tpetplyr]

My conductor is on this "bells out of the stands" kick and he seems to want the bell somewhat over the stand. the prblm is that when he positions me like he wants me 2 things happen. 1) i can no longer see the music well and 2) my bell is pointed direectly at the stand.... anyway, those of you who play in orchestra, how do you normally set up with your bells and stands and position relative to teh conductor?

Stuart
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[jhatpro]

You can learn to read between your arm and the horn. You may have to experiment to see what I mean. It'll take awhile before you feel comfortable and confident but you will be able to get the bell out of the stand.
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[_Don Herman]

We're usually asked to keep it down (hmmm...) When playing out, and/or up, I usually put the stand a bit to the side so I'm playing sort of around it more than over it. Of course, it depends on how high your stand is. When there's no room to move the stand, I do as Jim said and look/read "down" between my elbows with the bell out straight('ish) over the stand. I don't really like this, as I tend to find myself mashing my upper lip as I try to play with the bell up while peering nearsightedly at the music...

FWIWFM - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[robert_white]

I agree with Don that playing "around" the stand is usually more manageable. I feel more comfortable when the stand is a little bit farther out in front of me, too. That way, I can see both the music and the podium while not playing right into the stand.

If your conductor insists on marching band bells, talk to him about it and explain that it's very hard to get your best sound with your neck/chops/arms/etc. in that weird position. If that doesn't work, have your teacher get involved in the discussion.

[Tootsall]

I'm not playing in an orchestra, but in a community band. We frequently get instructed to "brighten up the sound, trumpets" which means "get the darn bells UP and pointed at the audience". The problem is that I wear progressive bifocal glasses and can't focus on the printed music when I'm "head up, eyes down" and peering down through the bottoms of the lenses.

The solution for me was to get a pair of "music glasses" made up in fixed, bifocal design with a slightly larger bottom section set to focus at about 3', or the distance from my eyes to the stand and the tops ground to focus "out there" to regular audience distance. I still have trouble "finding" the music "around" the horn/hands but as others have suggested, placing the stand somewhat sideways and aiming the bell "top left" works best for me (although it's still not ideal).

I subsequently found that the 3' distance also works great for focusing on the dash of the car with the "split line" right along the top of the dash so this pair of glasses can be used as a spare set too.

[tcutrpt]

Are you up on risers at all? Just wondering because that right there takes care of a lot of projection issues that the conductor may have with the trumpets. Like others have said, playing to the side of the stand is usually much easier than playing above it. Just make sure you then aren't playing into the back of someone's head!
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[AverageJoe]

I think the conductor will be happy if he hears what he wants to hear. Sounds like you are playing into your stand a little too much, so try what Bob White suggested -- point the bell to the side of the stand and/or learn to play with the stand a little further from your bell so the sound isn't reflecting off of it so much. You can also adjust the angle of the stand table so that it is less perpendicular to the floor (i.e. so the sound reflects up and out rather than back at you).

Paul Poovey

[Jansu]

I know this is going to sound really obnoxious, but why do you need the music? Unless you're a pro playing getting new tunes constantly, you should know the tunes to the point where you can use the sheetmusic only as a guide to where you are within the piece and to whats coming up next. I dont know if this applies to legit performers though... Anyway, I know most of my big band tunes by heart/very well. The only way to read the music is between your arms/horn as described above. I cant really concentrate on the phrasing etc., until I know the notes/rhythms, which I know is a weakness with my sight reading. If you have to tilt your horn so high that it makes playing difficult, as opposed to easier, then your stand is too high! In school orchestras/bands, many students play with awful posture and down under the music. It's not just about the sound, it also looks awful when you have the whole trumpet section hunched down into their stands. You play the trumpet, sit up and play out!

[Zaphod]

It makes a HUGE difference in sound wether you're playing "up" or "in stand" (or even lower).
That being said, in a symphony orchestra I would play mostly "down" to blend better with strings and woodwinds, but e.g. in big band settings you HAVE to play "up" - so you've got to find a way to play over the stand! (And then I'd play "up" WHENEVER POSSIBLE - it sounds much, much better in the audience (even if you yourself don't notice any difference while playing))
Positive side-effects: better posture (better breathing(!!!), psychological effects), looks better...
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[tpetplyr]

We are not on risers. And i usually sit fairly far back from the stand. Ive never had a complaint about it before in orchestras, symphonic bands, honor band clinics anything. I typically project just fine, sometimes too well....I dunno. I'll monkey around with it and find something he likes. I'm just not comfortable playing OVER the stand from both a posture (btw, i sit up very straight etc) and a musical point of view, it just sounds awful edgy usually when i see trumpets go bells up.

Stuart
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[trombapaul2]

Are you able to position the stand further away in front of you? I find that
if there is some distance between me and the stand, the sound carries just
fine without having my bell right in the back of the oboist's head. It does help
having darn good vision otherwise this is hard to pull off. Are you able to lower
and tilt the stand back a bit? This will also free up some of the sound that may be
getting trapped by the stand while negating the need to raise the bell. It also pays
to memorize as much of the piece as possible so you aren't required to be looking
down into the stand. Good luck!

Paul
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[Peter Bond]

Try to keep the stand in your sightline to the conductor so you don't have to move your eyes and risk losing your place in the music when you look at him/her/it.

Big Orchestra Career Tip:
The more you look at the conductor, the better off you will be; conductors LOVE it when you are looking at them, and are favorably disposed toward players who do it. Memorize all of the spots where there is a tempo change, rubato, solo, or any thing else that conductor must (or wants to) control. This is one of the biggest responsibilities of a first trumpet player; the orchestra will follow the first trpt, even if they aren't watching the maestro. This is also true of show and big band work. A teacher once told me; "Part of he jhe job of a first trumpet player is to give the conductor the illusion that he is in control." Cynical, but often true.

Play with your bell to the side of the stand, and angled slightly downward in order to blend (and make sure your section is doing the same). If you have a lick or a solo that yoy want to stand out, raise the bell a little.
Playing with the bell in the stand can sometimes be used as a subtle muting effect, but be aware that it cuts your projection, gives you a distorted idea of your dynamics, and, should the stand be turned at an angle, will reflect your sound, bouncing it into the ear of one of you colleagues. Mel Broiles did that frequently and it was annoying as hell (and occasionally deafening).
Playing above the stand, or with the bell raised is a special effect, and should be reserved for those places where the composer calls for it. For example, in Mahler symphonies, you will see "Schalltrichter auf" or "Schalltr. hoch" which means literally; "Bells up."
It's possible that in an effort to create an "orchestral" tone, you are making a dull, covered sound that isn't projecting, and you conductor is asking for the bell up as a way of compensating (this happens a lot). Discuss with your private teacher or a good orchestral player. A good orchestral trumpet sound has plenty of "color" or harmonics happening.
Peter Bond

[tpetplyr]

[sdgtpt]

It is very interesting to me how much thought you are putting into your bell position. I would stick with the above advice about playing with the stand out in front of you. My stand sits about 4-5 feet out in front of me, directly between myself and the podium.
My students all play to the left of their stands in their ensembles, and my teachers always seem to play above their stands (since they are on risors (sp?)).

Good luck

[wiseone2]

[_Don Herman]

Seems like a lot of times I can't place the stand very far in front of me -- sometimes we're so crowded on the risers that I'm worried about catching my bell on it! Four or five feet away is rarely an option for me, either at church or subbing in the orchestra. Just not enough room on stage. In that case, I put the stand down a bit and bend the deck at a pretty good angle (so the music is laying "flatter") and play over it when I need to play out. Or, just sit up straight... - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[SilverTrumpet]

I agree with the tilting of the stand. However I prefer to just play off to the side. That seems the easiest to me.
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[tpetplyr]

Well, last night we had our first orhcestra rehersal since i posted this topic. I sat a meter, meter and a half behind my stand, put it all the way down, tilited it back, and played into whatever side my music wasnt on. While i swear im playing right into the stand doing that, he liked the sound so it looks like thats what I'll be doing for the next 4 years:) thanks for the advice.

Stuart
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