View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
trjeam Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 2072 Location: Edgewood, Maryland
|
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have seen many orchestral trumpeter's play in concerts and I have noticed that most of them always have the bell facing towards the floor. Why is this?? Is it a technique that they use or something?
I have always been told to point the trumpet bell up. In matter of fact I've been told that when you do that it's like playing towards the floor and your sound doesn't project.
So why do they point the bell towards the floor? _________________ Jorge Ayala Jr: Trumpeter/Producer
http://www.facebook.com/JorgeAyalaJr
http://www.twitter.com/JorgeAyalaMusic |
|
Back to top |
|
|
johntpt 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Feb 2002 Posts: 2284 Location: Toluca, Mexico
|
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting topic. Most orchestral players do seem to point down, some more than others. Tommy Stevens REALLY pointed down.
This may have something to do with blending the sound. If the trumpet is horizontal the sound will be more direct, but if the sound first deflects off the floor it will blend more with the rest of the orchestra. I usually point somewhat down and only play at a horizontal or above level if the composer asks for "bells up", sometimes for other big solos, or if the conductor really wants it loud.
John Urness |
|
Back to top |
|
|
screamertrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 170 Location: Washington State
|
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've done a lot of legit playing in my days (how old am I now, 15? Wow, time sure does fly). Anyways, I was always told to keep my bell up in jazz, but no one ever said about symphonic/wind ensemble. IMO, I think it's a lot more comfortable just to play "down" when sitting and a little more raised when standing (and really raised when marching...).
It's just my opinion, though...
Trevor |
|
Back to top |
|
|
_Don Herman 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3344 Location: Monument, CO, USA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When I play with the Philharmonic, I point down more, too. The reasons are blending (as John said -- a bell over the stand means it's way too easy to overwhelm the rest of the orchestra); and, because I have to see the music somehow, can't move the stand to the side (I usually play to the left of the stand, but the orchestra stage is crowded) and so when sitting down it's easier to read the music over the horn -- which puts the bell down.
FWIW - Don _________________ Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vivace Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 3203 Location: BYU! Provo, UT
|
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you are not facing the bell directly at the audience, they hear a better tone. MY teach was tellin me about recordings, and that if you don't have a special mic, play sideways to the mic so the soungs goes and not the airy crappy noise that you can hear.
just an idea....
or maybe all the ol timers have bad backs and can't sit up straight... darn arthritus... _________________ "All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing no song." - Louis Armstrong |
|
Back to top |
|
|
_Don Herman 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3344 Location: Monument, CO, USA
|
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Better tone when playing at the stand? Hmmm... Not in my experience, but I suppose the audience may prefer the more "muted" sound... It does help me hear the other players and stay better in tune, fwiw.
Playing into a mic is a whole nuther topic, which a number of players could probably address. It takes time and practice. Right tone, smooth tonguing, etc. Miles and Maurice Andre come to mind as two players in different styles who really work a mic well. For good sound, the mic should really be further back than most soundmen (persons?) think -- more like 3 to 6 feet (or, 1 to 2 meters) and, as you noted, a hair off axis. Also, of course, using the mic for emphasis, and learning to use it without dinging your bell (or worse) is important.
Neat stuff! - Don _________________ Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Emb_Enh Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455
|
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
trjeam writes>>>
I have noticed that most of them always have the bell facing towards the floor. Why is this??
=============================
I think it's because most of them have been taught a basic Farkas embouchure not requiring the even jaw/teeth alignment of some other methods, which in turn results in the horn angle being more downwards. _________________ Regards, Roddy o-iii
RoddyTpt@aol.com
"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD
[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
walter Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 428 Location: near Philadelphia
|
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 09:15 ] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SHS_Trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2001 Posts: 1809 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
|
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I always point down. _________________ Andrew Fowler
MYNWA
"90% of trumpet music is below high C" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
redface Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 643 Location: England
|
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
is it not just because the majority of orchestral players are down stream players (i.e when they smile the top teeth come over their bottom teeth). Also in the orchestra you really need to watch the conductor (and sometimes the leader too)- much more than in a big band -pointing the horn down gives you a slightly clearer view of things. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pitchb Regular Member
Joined: 13 May 2002 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
|
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I was told to always keep my bell up. I did that in a concert once for Symphonic Band. It wasn't good. All of the speculation about blending the sound is absolutely correct. It also mellows players who play too loudly for the setting. The up-bell is good for fanfares, jazz, and I suppose solos, but while playing in a section, the down-bell makes things a lot more pleasent to listen to.
Matt |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
|
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2002 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Usually when a trumpet player tilts the horn downward, it is to relieve any upper lip pressure. Similar in some respects to the Rheinhart pivot. I'm not an expert on the subject. The bottom lip can always take more abuse!
It isn't a bad idea, and you don't have to exagerate the tilt downward to be of help to you. And your sound and endurance are enhanced.
Pete |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3782 Location: AL
|
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Volume control.
If you notice, most players also keep their stands fairly low so they can see the conductor. Thus, if the stand is low, the horn must be pointed lower also in order to see the music.
Most people are lazy. It's easier to hold pointed down than up, a la marching band/jazz band. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erin C Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Location: Edmonton, Canada
|
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My band director yells at us trumpets CONSTANTLY to keep our bells up. He's not happy unless they're parallel to the floor in jazz band, or pointing straight at his head in concert band which means UPWARDS. It's bad because I have quite a bit of an overbite which naturally points my bell lower, and the only way I can think of to fix this problem without changing my embouchure is to lean back... and that's hard... anyone else have this problem? He claims he can't hear us even when we're playing loud. Sometimes I just think that's him going deaf, though. Oh well. Any other highschool-ers have hteir teachers yell at them until their bells tilt so far upwards the spit drains back into their mouths???
Erin -iii< _________________ "If it is true that love makes the world go round, then of course there'll always be music to spark the romance of life."
-Rex Stewart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dawnfrenzy Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 32 Location: Australia
|
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
yeah, we get that now and again, but usually its cause the players that point their trumpets down (in high school bands anyway) usually have some playing problem which they dont want every one to hear. As to reading the music, i never really noticed it untill a couple of weeks back, but i read it all sorts of wierd ways, sometimes underneath, sometimes over, sometimes through the gap between my right hand and the valves.... just depends on what i want to sound like and how much room i have. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
walter Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 428 Location: near Philadelphia
|
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2002 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Erin-
Tell your band director that we're not all made alike; our anatomies are different. Having everyone play with bells parallel to the floor is like asking everyone to wear the same size shoes or band uniform.
Arching your back to play with a "level" bell just may exacerbate or lead to some back problems in the future. I practiced chiropractic for more than 20 years, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about.
As for your chops and bell angle: if he/she wants everyone to look alike, she/he will get the best results only from those people who can anatomically accomplish his/her goals for appearance. This director seems more concerned with appearance than performance. What a jerk.
Have the director email me to justify his/her position [no pun intended]. I'd love to hear what warrants such a position.
walter
wsharshon@hotmail.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|