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Best Cornet out there


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thedevilisbad
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:39 am    Post subject: Best Cornet out there Reply with quote

What is the best cornet out there? Consider price also. I really like the King Legend cornets.
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David Koch Custom 1958 Olds Ambassador
1951 Conn 80A
A lot of other crap.
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that there are many good deals out there on cornets... no one likes them, or has not found out how fun they are, so you could try a few. As you can see I have 2 different cornets and I like them both. They both have a different sound, depending on mouthpiece. I did not spend over $100 on either of them! Some are more popular so the price will be higher so shop around.
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thedevilisbad
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have and Olds Ambassador cornet, but it needs repair. My friend has an 80A(the one with the micro tuner?) and so does my band director. I like corrnets because they are closer to my ear and easier to hold up, a plus in marching band. Many people I know don't like them because they feel like they're playing right into the trumpet, I don't understand them.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played many, if not most of the premiere ones on the market today . . . and nothing, for ME, has ever touched my goldplated Flip Oakes Wild Thing short model cornet, not even my Boston 3-Stars of the 1911-1913 era.

Other new ones that play really nice are the Blackburns (especially the Eb), and the Schilke (again, the Eb is very nice).

Excellent, and more affordable current cornets are offered by Lawler, Kanstul and the short model Getzen. For our friends across the pond, let's not forget the large bore BE928 Besson Sovereign.

In the vintage era its hard to beat a shepherd's crook Boston 3-Star . . . and after WWI the newfangled "long bell" cornets of Olds could be really nice too, as are some of the early Strads and Benge cornets.

Excellent, more affordable vintage horns are easy to find today that are also nice, including most Olds models, the Reynolds Contempora and Argenta, King Silvertone, Conn (several models are nice), and several others.

I encourage everyone to get a classic-sounding, "Deep V-type" cornet mouthpiece and grab a cornet and discover the unique and sweet sound that only a cornet can make! There are a lot of "pro-level" cornets from the golden days of the brass band craze that are now coming out of attics. These horns are quite affordable vs. the quality they provide.There should be a cornet for every budget!!!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom turner wrote:
For our friends across the pond, let's not forget the large bore BE928 Besson Sovereign.

Ah, the old favourite

Other cornets that are found in many brass bands over here are the Yamaha Maestro (which I use - fantastic instrument), Besson Prestige (the model ABOVE the Sovereign), Courtois, Getzen and a few others.

Quote:
Other new ones that play really nice are the Blackburns (especially the Eb), and the Schilke (again, the Eb is very nice).

The Blackburn Eb is not "really nice," it is incredible - an Eb cornet that plays in tune with the most fantastic sound. If you are ever after an Eb cornet, there is only one that should ever be considered.
As for the Schilke - it was an acceptable instrument, until Blackburn raised the standard.
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davidquinlan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play on a Courtois 106 XXLR which is OK. I spent some time on a Besson Prestige last week which is definatley an easier blow then the Courtois, but my preferred "best" cornet at the moment (from the models I have played) is the Smith Watkins.
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedevilisbad - I was considering your "price" comment

From the upper price bracket there are the Smith-Watkins cornets (as mentioned above) which are very well regarded and there is Andy Tayloor's cornet. Not found in many brass bands (the idea of change in the brass band is not something that is understood) yet it is the finest cornet I have yet played.
Leigh McKinney is rumoured to have finally got a cornet put together (last time I saw it, it was just a bell and a valve block!), I will be heading up there soon and will report back on whether he has built yet another instrument to take the brass world by storm.
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bophead
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing my Kanstul CCC930 exclusively over the past few weeks. What a joy! Everything seems to come together when playing a cornet. The sound I hear from behind the bell seems so much sweeter than what you get when playing a trumpet (your conversations become more interesting, the day is a bit brighter, you get the attention of attractive women, your golf game improves, your friends and family appreciate you more ... but I digress). In practicing the cornet, I find my air management is better, I am not pressing as hard as long or as often; I feel (at long last) I am gaining some consistancy.

Tom's suggestion about a deep 'v' mouthpiece is right on the mark. I am playing a Warburton 1bc with a 22 throat and it makes a world of difference.
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plp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is a really hard question, as there are so many 'best for this or that application' so here is what I think....

Best BB cornet..... don't know, will defer to the more knowledgable.

Best American short model- Connstellation 36-A. There is a very good reason you don't see these for sale much.

Best American long model- Tie between the Conn 80-A and the Conn 28-A.

Best overall value- Olds Ambassador, hands down.
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mark schorah
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah come to britain and basically 90% of the cornets you see will be besson soverign, i dont no what type of deal besson have with brass bands out here but they must of made a fortune from it

mark
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark schorah wrote:
i dont no what type of deal besson have with brass bands out here but they must of made a fortune from it

Far from it actually.
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LouisNJ
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetmike wrote:
Other cornets that are found in many brass bands over here are... Getzen and a few others.


I don't know much about Getzen cornets... Which model do you see in brass bands from time to time, the Eterna (model 800 I think)? They make a "Custom" line too, right? Is there a big difference?

Louis
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject: Best Cornet Out There Reply with quote

I'm surprised that there's been litle mention in this thread of how different various cornets can be. I just came back from the Maryland Early Brass Festival (natural trumpets, cornettos --- which are not cornets, sackbutts) and found out that there was a famous competition between a keyed trumpet virtuoso and a cornet a pistons guy around 1850, when the cornet was new.

Anyway, the classic cornet is the Victorian cornet of about 1890, exemplified by the Boston Three Star, the York Professional and Tom Turner's Wild Thing Cornet. With the proper mouthpiece it's a sweeter, softer sound than we are used to today. Without going way into it (Tom Turner has written several great long posts on this issue which a search should turn up), the cornet was conical and sweet, the trumpet was a peashooter about 1910, mostly cylindrical. Trumpets began to get larger in bore and maybe a bit more conical and the cornet players were left in the dust, volume-wise and brilliance-wise in the dance band era. So cornets became more like trumpets and most of the cornets after about 1930 are of this type. More of cylindrical tubing and a trumpet type mouthpiece. There is some transition and some models in between, maybe the early Conn 80A's, but basically that's the story.

Still, the vintage cornets of the 30's to 60's are great bargains and many are great players, put together during the hand assembly era and many are little used and still in great shape. Fifty to a hundred and fifty will put you in to most of these right now. Fun to collect.

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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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gillie89
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of cornets ... someone gave, yes gave me, a 1915 H.N. White "King" Improved Vocal Model A/Bb/C Cornet in very good condition. This cornet has a rotor for the keys of Bb and C and 3 sets of slides. Looks like the original silver finish, like today's bead blasted finishes. It also has 2 original mpcs. Does anyone know anything about this particular model? Why the name? Was it popular? I haven't really looked seriously at newer horns because this one plays so sweet. Gillie
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Philpicc
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gillie, Try this site.

http://www.hnwhite.com/
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gillie89
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip, thank you. Lots of great info about H.N.White models. Good source of information for anyone thinking of buying a vintage White or King horn.
Gillie
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Paul.Trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't imagine wynton marsalis sounding better on the Carnival album using another cornet....
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gillie,

I have a King vocal model from 1930, only C-Bb though. No "A" slides. I like it a lot, medium bore, light creamy sound. I did find it worked a lot better with a Yamaha 11E4 mouthpiece (short shank), which I just got. It's perfect for this horn: v cup, more open throat, but not as big and open as the Wick 4 which I used before. The Wick was a disaster because it made it sound dead. I also used a Conn 5W, which was pretty good. The short shank of the Yamaha is a perfect match for the thin lead pipe though, as it is definitely a narrower gauge than the standard long shank, even a touch narrower than my Wick. I'm curious as to the mouthpieces that your vocal came with. Were they the short shank deep V also?
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gillie89
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,
The one mpc that came with it is marked H.N.White Co. on the cup. On the shank is the number 41. The other mpc is unmarked: no name, no number. The shank on the 41 is short (and somewhat shorter than the unmarked one) and the cup looks like it is a deep V cup. Currently I use a Kanstul B5C with 24 backbore when I play in group. I should probably spend more time on the original mpc and try to get used to it. The tone is so much better on that mpc. Gillie
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Gilligan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the shank of the unmarked mouthpiece get a magnifying glass and really look for markings. I have a vintage Buescher trombone mouthpiece a 47A that has markings so small that I thought it had no maker's mark for over 25 years until I decided to look through my glass at what I thought was a bunch of tiny scratches. The enscriptions on the Bueschers are so small they can look like dirt or tiny dings.

Under a glass the markings on the shaft will look something like this:

->BUESCHER<- ->TRUE TONE<-

Let us know if you find anything.
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