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m7 Regular Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:43 am Post subject: Cornet Solos on Flugelhorn |
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Is it much more difficult to play cornet solos (e.g., Carnival of Venice) on the flugel? How does it sound? Any recordings available? Thank you for your inputs. |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I've got a recording of Maurice Andre playing 'Hora Staccato' on a flugel, it sounds great, but making the articulations clear must certainly be very difficult, even for someone like him |
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Mr. Stomvi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Pick up a copy of Maurice Andre's "The Ultimate Trumpet Collection" on Erato - # 4509-92861-2. Great recordings of La Traviata and Carnival done on flugel. Makes ya wonder why anybody would do anything on cornet. Absolutely stunning.
Seth Moore _________________ "He has Van Gogh's ear for music."
Billy Wilder |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Stomvi wrote: | Pick up a copy of Maurice Andre's "The Ultimate Trumpet Collection" on Erato - # 4509-92861-2. Great recordings of La Traviata and Carnival done on flugel. Makes ya wonder why anybody would do anything on cornet. Absolutely stunning.
Seth Moore |
The reason cornets are and should be the weapon of choice vs flugel is because of the flugel's notorious intonation issues. I find the cornet to be more dead on for intonation than flugel or trumpet. Andre gets away with it because he is a space alien, and they can do stuff like that. |
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horndevil Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 604 Location: Out in the sticks. England
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: |
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It is possible to play pretty much anything written for cornet on the Flugel, but is much harder to get some of the faster articulation nice and crisp, like you can easily achieve on a cornet.
For fast tongueing and running around frantically in all but the highest register, you will find the most challenging solos easier to acomplish on a cornet than on flugel of trumpet.
In short...if you really want to take up the challenge, go for it on flugel, but expect to work twice as hard for comparable results. _________________ Haagston US3 Bb Trumpet
Conn V1 Flugel
Willson Celebration Cornet
Ian Barnes |
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TheLawTalkingGuy Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 392 Location: Halifax, NS (Canada)
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Stomvi wrote: | Pick up a copy of Maurice Andre's "The Ultimate Trumpet Collection" on Erato - # 4509-92861-2. Great recordings of La Traviata and Carnival done on flugel. Makes ya wonder why anybody would do anything on cornet. Absolutely stunning.
Seth Moore |
First off, I agree with Seth 100% - that is simply a great recording of Maurice Andre (as if there are any bad ones!) even if he is a space alien!
But... the trilingual (French/English/German) liner notes on my copy don't mention a flugelhorn. They describe him playing "trompette/trumpet/Trompete" on all tracks (including Carnaval) except La Traviata, which they describe as being played on "bugle/saxhorn/Signalhorn".
I may be way off here, so apologies in advance, but I thought a saxhorn was something quite different from a flugelhorn. _________________ John Underhill
The purpose of all music is "the glory of God and the re-creation of the human spirit." (J.S. Bach)
(Flag Graphics Courtesy of 3DFlags.com) |
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badocter Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 413
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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"Bugel" is what the French call a Flugelhorn. I dunno about the Saxhorn bit. |
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Mr. Stomvi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Bugle for the French = flugelhorn. If you take a look at the liner notes on Andre's "Musiques de Kiosque" CD on EMI # 7243 5 55103 2 7 he also did "Carnival" (same arrangement - later recording with different cadenza) and it is listed as done on "bugle" while the rest of the CD was done either on "cornet", "Trompette" or "Trompette piccolo". The later version is similar enough to the earlier version that it makes me suspect that the earlier version was also done on flugel and listed wrong on the earlier liner notes. Maurice is so bloody smooth that it makes it tough to tell the difference sometimes. I think that I like the later version a tad better. What can I say - he was playing Stomvi horns then which he helped design
Seth Moore _________________ "He has Van Gogh's ear for music."
Billy Wilder |
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TheLawTalkingGuy Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 392 Location: Halifax, NS (Canada)
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Stomvi wrote: | Bugle for the French = flugelhorn..... |
Oops! Sorry for my ignorance (although I figured it wasn't actually a bugle he was playing!
Mr. Stomvi wrote: | ....Maurice is so bloody smooththat it makes it tough to tell the difference sometimes. |
Exactly! _________________ John Underhill
The purpose of all music is "the glory of God and the re-creation of the human spirit." (J.S. Bach)
(Flag Graphics Courtesy of 3DFlags.com) |
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TWEAK Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 416 Location: Albany, NY
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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i try to play flugel horn at least 2 times a day for a good 30-45 mins each. i like to play variations on a theme from belini's norma. i havent had a hard time making the tonguing clear. maybe its just me. or it could be the horn. i dunno. _________________ http://onlinejazzclass.com |
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Paul.Trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2001 Posts: 510 Location: Oxfordshire
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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[Seth Moore[/quote]
The reason cornets are and should be the weapon of choice vs flugel is because of the flugel's notorious intonation issues. I find the cornet to be more dead on for intonation than flugel or trumpet. Andre gets away with it because he is a space alien, and they can do stuff like that.[/quote]
Its my experience of the Yamaha 631G, Conn 1FR and Weril 9072G that cornets have worse intonation than flugels, compared to Besson sovereigns. The flugel is more flexible and easy to play high on - last time I heard Maurice had glued his front teeth together.. nothing about where he hid the mothership..... |
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Kalidass Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 21
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Stomvi wrote: | Bugle for the French = flugelhorn
Seth Moore | Well, yes and no...you see "bugle" mentioned in the sense of "flugelhorn", of course, in la grande nation, but Monsieur Arban, e.g., wrote his method "pour trompette, cornet à piston et saxhorn", the latter of which is the flugelhorn, invented by his dear friend Adolphe Sax. You also find "saxhorn" in the sense of flugelhorn in French dictionaries; but no music store in Paris sells you saxhorns, only bugles.
Maybe a French flugelbugleplayer can shed some light on this semantic change.
regards
Kalidass |
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Kalidass Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 21
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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sorry, I have to add something, and it seems that I made the same mistake as many dictionaries or other sources : The idea that the saxhorn is equal to the flugelhorn is historically wrong. See:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tenorhorn/flugelhistory.html |
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